The Psyche Defence

The Defence case centred on Luka Magnotta's mental health at the time he perpetrated the murder of Jun Lin.  It was the contention of Defence attorney, Luc Leclair, that Luka Magnotta was not criminally responsible for his actions due to mental illness and persecution. I have decided to post in full the key testimonies of witnesses called by the Defence to give evidence at the Trial.  The testimonies are transcribed directly from Twitter courtroom coverage provided by crime reporters at the Trial.  I have not omitted key facts, changed context or embellished this important testimony.   Sorry about the small type.

Whilst there was considerable disagreement about Luka Magnotta's mental health diagnosis between the various expert witnesses, five out of the six Doctors (Dr's Roy, Paris, Chamberland, Watts and Barth) who gave testimony during the Trial diagnosed Luka Magnotta with Borderline Personality Disorder[Wikipedia]  Only Doctor Allard did not venture an opinion on this diagnosis.

Crown Rebuttal Testimony from Dr. Gilles Chamberland, 25th November 2014 - 3rd December 2014

Dr. Gilles Chamberland is a forensic psychiatrist called to give expert witness testimony by The Crown.

Dr. Chamberland requested to meet with Luka Magnotta to conduct a psychiatric assessment for the Crown, but Magnotta refused to meet with him.
Dr. Chamberland compiled a report, but he was unable to officially diagnose Magnotta because of his refused to meet with him.
Note: Dr Chamberland's witness testimony has been punctuated by frequent - often lengthy - adjournments for legal argument.

Dr. Chamberland:”Magnotta case could be a complete course in psychiatry – it includes so many elements and possible disorders. There are two explanations, either schizophrenia is the most important illness to explain Magnotta's behaviour or personality disorder.”

Dr. Chamberland:”I find it hard to see schizophrenia as the illness that explains all of Magnotta's behaviour before and after killing. A diagnosis of schizophrenia or psychosis does not always mean no criminal responsibility.”

Dr. Chamberland goes through mental health guidebook, and criteria necessary for diagnosis of schizophrenia.

Dr. Chamberland:”I draw attention to the criteria and symptoms needed to diagnose schizophrenia. Doctors have to eliminate drug use as a factor.”

Dr. Chamberland:”On disorganized speech, anxiety can cause this but for a schizophrenia diagnosis it has to be severe. Virtually incomprehensible.”

Dr. Chamberland:”With LM's father, who testified for the defence, it is clear his medication is working, but you see effects of schizophrenia.”

Dr. Chamberland:”Regarding Magnotta's diagnosis of schizophrenia, it is important to see when he was first diagnosed and what were the symptoms reported.”

Dr Chamberland refers to LM's medical records.

Dr. Chamberland:”When LM was 18-years-old, crisis workers wondered if he had schizophrenia or if he was faking the symptoms. Another psychiatrist at the time thought LM was strange and felt he was looking for some secondary gain.”

Dr. Chamberland shows a note LM wrote to get Ontario financial aid for mentally ill.

Dr. Chamberland:”In the note...LM perfectly describes schizophrenia symptoms. The first mention that LM had schizophrenia was in April 2001, but health workers suspected faking. On 2nd August 2001 paranoid schizophrenia.”

Dr. Chamberland:”But in August 2001, drugs were involved, suspected suicide attempt. By March 2002 LM's medical records say 'chronic schizophrenia'.”

Dr. Chamberland: “Evolution of diagnosis is surprising. LM's symptoms were far from being definitive.”

Dr. Chamberland:”2003 hospital visit could be due to cocaine use, not mental illness – especially as he was back a week later. He told a nurse that his room-mate may lie about him and say he used cocaine. This is rare in schizophrenia patients. I tend to think that cocaine use and not schizophrenia is behind Magnotta's hospital visits in 2003.”

Dr. Chamberland:”LM's family members doubted his mental illness, thought he was seeking attention and had learned behaviour from his father.”

Dr. Chamberland:”LM's obsession with his looks is actually the opposite of patients with schizophrenia, who often neglect appearance.”

Dr. Chamberland:”LM's hospital visit in Miami 2011, the discharge sheet says he was “ultra organised”, denied hallucinations.”

Judge says trial is nearly done, but Jury won't start deliberating until week ending 8th December at the earliest.

Dr. Chamberland:”LM did not show schizophrenia symptoms of disorganisation after killing, but rather he was “ultra organised”. After the killing, LM was able to plan a trip to Europe, cleaned/packed up his apartment, and even set up work overseas, all in 48 hours.”

Dr. Chamberland reads what LM told Berlin psychiatrist,Dr. Barth, after his arrest.

Dr. Chamberland:”LM talked of himself as victim, not taking medication, symptoms, bad childhood. It's anything but disorganised. Dr. Barth got all he needed to diagnose schizophrenia without asking questions.”

Dr. Chamberland:”LM minimized his drug/alcohol use, forcing doctors to conclude his symptoms were due to schizophrenia.”

Dr. Chamberland:”In RDP detention centre, Montreal, LM wanted Risperdal, a strong antipsychotic medication. Doctor said no, accused got lawyer to change doctor.”

Dr. Chamberland:”LM didn't tell treating psychiatrist at RDP (Dr. Roy) everything to avoid suicide wing, so he's able to filter information.

Crown points out that in his visit to psychiatry clinic (Jewish General Hospital) one month before killing, LM gave mistakes in address and date of birth. Four times he gave 1 digit off.

Dr. Chamberland:”Could be a faulty secretary, but most likely LM didn't want to be found for a follow-up, he wanted something that day.”

Dr. Chamberland:”LM's behaviour can be explained by personality disorders and simulation of schizophrenia symptoms.”

Dr. Chamberland explains personality disorders to the Court.

Dr. Chamberland:”Personality Disorder is not an illness per se. It's part of a personality so can't be treated with medication, only therapy.”

Dr. Chamberland:”People with Cluster A Personality Disorders are often mistakenly diagnosed as having schizophrenia. Psychiatrist who saw LM found Cluster B. Those with Cluster B Disorders are theatrical, seeking attention, tend to blame others.”

Dr. Chamberland:”I believe LM has Histrionic Personality Disorder. Same diagnosis as Dr. Watts, one of the psychiatrists for the defence. 1 criteria for Histrionic Personality Disorder: inappropriate sexual seductive behaviour, for example, when LM made advances to Prison nurse. Another criteria for HPD is seeking attention. LM did this with Homolka dating rumours and cat torture videos.”

Dr. Chamberland:”For those with Histrionic Personality Disorder, negative attention is better than no attention at all.”

Court adjourns.

Testimony from Dr. Chamberland, 1st December 2014

Dr. Chamberland: “LM wasn't socialised until age of 12. He has Personality Disorder. Person with Personality Disorder could commit horrific act without actually being sick.”

Dr. Chamberland: “Not only is there Personality Disorder, LM is narcissistic.”

Dr. Chamberland: “Efforts to avoid real or perceived abandonment, viewing people in extremes as either perfect or bad are two signs of Borderline Personality Disorder. This is seen in LM when he talks of his mother (bad), grandmother (perfect). Did LM move a lot because he was paranoid or because he thought things would be better elsewhere?”

Dr. Chamberland: “Another criteria of BPD is impulsive behaviour. For example, LM moved often, felt life would be better elsewhere. Episodes of depression and mania, but would return to normal relatively quickly. Another criterion is chronic feeling of emptiness. BPD people to try to fill that void with extreme sports, sex etc.”

Dr. Chamberland:”Some Borderline Personality Disorder criteria LM shows: unstable sense of self, impulsiveness, feeling of emptiness, paranoid ideas.”

Dr. Chamberland: “Narcissists need to be admired and may relate to stars (LM liked Sharon Stone, Marilyn Monroe). LM also has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Shows feeling of self-importance, propelled by low self-esteem. They lack empathy and are unable to identify with feelings of others. LM also had 2 criterion – success fantasies. He said he didn't belong in Toronto, but rather in LA. Idolized movie stars. Other narcissistic traits I noted in LM are sense of entitlement and need for admiration.”

Dr. Chamberland discusses Antisocial Personality Disorder. Impulsive, reckless disregard for safety of self and others.

Dr. Chamberland:”Lack of remorse is hard to evaluate because could only be done after arrest. Antisocial Personality Disorder criteria I see in LM: impulsive behaviour, repeated lies or deceit/use of aliases.”

Dr. Chamberland:”It seems every psychiatrist who saw LM felt he had personality disorder, mostly narcissistic and histrionic.”

Dr. Chamberland:”I can't talk about this case without discussing sex. Porn actor, escort, relationships, crimes he committed. Paraphilia, atypical sexual interests, you can't escape the sexual element in Magnotta case.”

Dr. Chamberland: “LM went on gore sites so also had sexual sadism disorder. The three cat torture videos do not seem like the work of someone with schizophrenia. Organised, common themes, edited, music added. Cat videos could have been a way for LM to draw attention to himself. And a springboard to something else.”

Speaking on malingering faking symptoms, Dr. Chamberland gives examples he believes shows discrepancies between LM's supposed illness and actual behaviour.

Dr. Chamberland: “LM kept victim's baseball cap, had it when arrested in Berlin, maybe because he wanted to keep a trace of event, sense of glory.”

Dr. Chamberland: “LM's version gives three reasons for killing and dismembering. He felt under threat and was disorganized and outside force controlling. Giving three different reasons is very unusual. It's usually only one (ie. felt under threat OR somebody controlling him).”

Court adjourns for the day.

Testimony from Dr. Chamberland, 2nd December 2014

Crown asks Dr. Chamberland about a taped audition LM did for reality show on plastic surgery.

Dr. Chamberland: “Defence psychiatrist also studied this video and said LM seemed relaxed, happy to be on cam. Talked about his looks being his number one concern. I agree with defence psychiatrist, Dr. Watts, that LM's thinking is organized and behaviour appropriate on audition video.”

Dr. Chamberland: “No signs of schizophrenia on audition tape, more in line with personality disorder. Seems LM wanted visibility and attention.”

Dr. Chamberland: “Scrawl on LM's apartment wall (if you don't like the reflection, don't look in the mirror, I don't care) I see this as a sign. A sign that LM accepts who he is and what he does.

Crown asks Dr. Chamberland about note that led police to victim's head.

Dr. Chamberland:” A schizophrenic person wouldn't have transported the body part so far if he was scared of victim, thought he was a spy. The fairly precise directions to head also points to personality disorder, that LM committed crimes for attention.

Dr. Chamberland: ”Basic Instinct film is key in crime, parallels troubling. LM used names from film, ice pick theme in movie present as well. Video showing parts of crime similar to first scene in film, plus LM had a screwdriver that was painted silver, like in movie.”

Dr. Chamberland: ”Even if LM has schizophrenia, there are no examples that suggest the accused did not know crime was wrong.”

Crown has no more questions for Dr. Chamberland. Defence cross-examination begins.

The Court is played a radio interview that Dr. Chamberland gave to Radio-Canada's morning show after the discover of Jun Lin's body in May 2012. Dr. Chamberland said the case was too calculated and methodical to be committed by someone who is mentally ill. 

Dr. Chamberland said it was impossible to watch (1 Lunatic 1 Ice Pick) video without being marked by it. Dr. Chamberland told the interviewer in May 2012 that he hadn't evaluated LM. He said he would re-offend. Dr. Chamberland also said in the interview that it was clear to him with information available that whoever was responsible for Jun Lin's murder, if caught, cannot claim he's not criminally responsible.

In a 2012 article in Le Soleil newspaper, Dr. Chamberland is quoted as describing LM as an explosive cocktail of personality disorders.

Dr. Chamberland agrees that psychotic people could commit a murder driven by their hallucinations.

Dr. Chamberland: “I had not already made up my mind about LM before assessing him. I expected to be able to meet him.”

Leclair:"We've had enough of your theories."

Judge reminds Leclair to ask questions.

Defence is going through LM's medical records. Dr. Chamberland has not read them in full.

Court adjourned for the day.

Testimony from Dr. Chamberland, 3rd December 2014

Leclair: “You did 2012 media interviews while police were searching for LM with little information, no time to prepare opinion.”

Dr. Chamberland:”I do not accept interviews if I have nothing to say. I have never gone on air after deciding opinion only 5 minutes before.”

Leclair wanted to have Dr. Chamberland as expert for defence, but the Crown had already reserved him.

Dr. Chamberland:”I was paid by the Crown. I took the reports regarding LM, I formed an opinion and presented it here.”

Leclair:”Why did you not contact the Doctors who saw LM in past?”

Dr. Chamberland:”That is not my role. My job in this case is not to investigate, but to give opinion on what defence psychiatrists concluded.”
  
Leclair challenges Dr. Chamberland about hospitalisation twice in March 2003 at Rouge Valley. 2003 psychiatrist, Dr. Sooriabalan, noted LM was “very frightened and agitated and voluntarily agreed to be hospitalized”.

Leclair:”You think it's fun for LM being hospitalised with diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia?”

Dr. Chamberland:” No. For some patients it is reassuring rather than traumatic to be hospitalised. Lesser evil. This hospitalisation seems to have been a time for recovery. Second hospitalisation LM refers to auditory hallucinations. A symptom in some schizophrenics.”

Leclair describes symptoms reported by LM during the second hospitalisation in March 2003.

Dr. Chamberland:”We have no evidence of that. The evolution of symptoms in LM at Rouge Valley is also compatible with withdrawal. People who have Borderline Personality Disorder can experience micro psychosis. Incidentally, LM reported at Rouge Valley that he feared his room-mate would tell staff that he was taking cocaine.”

Leclair:”LM denied taking drugs.”

Dr. Chamberland:”It is significant that he said he feared being accused of taking cocaine. Maybe LM made prevention by saying he feared being accused of taking cocaine.” (note: French translation is slightly skewed here)

Leclair:”Your thesis is based on an evaluation of an hour, that of Dr. Paris in April 2012.”

Dr. Chamberland:”That is illogical.”

Leclair now questions Dr. Chamberland about the medical report of LM's admission to Mount Sinai Hospital, Miami Beach. Dr. Chamberland and Leclair agree on one aspect of LM's hospitalisation at Mount Sinai.

Dr. Chamberland:”One can not rely on what LM says (regarding Mount Sinai hospitalisation).” Leclair agrees.
 
Leclair plays another 2012 radio interview conducted after the murder of Jun Lin, this time with Paul Arcand of 98.5 fm, in which Dr. Chamberland states “based on the information available it appears that the individual is a psychopath, sadistic.”

Defence finished with witness. Witness excused.

N.B. If Defence attorney, Luc Leclair, is genuinely so concerned about Dr. Chamberland's "credibility" as an expert forensic psychiatrist witness and his "bias" about the case, why is it then that he wished to hire Dr. Chamberland to conduct a forensic psychiatric assessment of Magnotta for the Defence?


Crown Rebuttal Testimony from Professor Dr. Joel Paris, 25th November 2014

Professor Dr. Joel Paris has been a psychiatrist since 1972 and has been a professor of psychiatry since 1994. He has published 20 books and specialises in Personality Disorders. Professor Paris was the last psychiatrist to assess Luka Magnotta prior to his arrest in Berlin, Germany.

He was called to give expert witness testimony by The Crown. 


Prof. Paris: “Personality disorder begins early in life and is continuous over many years. There are ten categories of personality disorder.”

Leclair:”It is the first time you have been asked to testify in Court?”

Prof. Paris:”Yes”

Judge qualifies Professor Paris as an expert witness.


Prof. Paris:”I met LM one time in April 2012.”

Crown:”How did the meeting with LM come about?”

Prof. Paris:”I took referral through local CLSC. I saw LM for consultation and evaluation. I met LM with co-psychiatrist for an hour which is a “normal consultation” in my field. It was a complex case as I knew nothing about LM. I had no past medical records.”

Prof. Paris: “I read about the case in a newspaper and recognized LM right away. It was a complicated and difficult case, with a story that went back many many years.”

Prof. Paris: “Some things LM told me were unusual and surprising. LM was coherent, thought pattern was not disordered in any way. I could understand him well.”

Prof. Paris: “I drafted my report a week after meeting LM on 17th April 2012.”

Prof. Paris:”LM told me he was followed in psychiatry in Ontario and wanted to be followed in Quebec but didn't say why. LM told me of mood instability, very needy in life, unstable sense of self. He got hair transplants because he was pulling his hair out. ”

Prof. Paris:”LM told me about highs and lows, could last a few hours, couple of days, used term manic phases. He was subject to an episode four months ago, impulsively bought ticket to London, England, and spent money on clothing. I asked questions about the episode.”

Crown:”Was he talking too fast?”

Prof. Paris:”No.”

Prof. Paris: “LM told me that when he would crash, he would suffer from depression and have to push himself out of bed. I asked him about relationships, if unstable. LM told me 'absolutely'. He told me he was disappointed in relationships, by the way people treated him.”

Prof. Paris: “LM took off his wigs and showed tufts of his hair was falling out due to balding condition. LM had hair pulling issues and chewed on his hair. He also told me that he used to cut himself, but no recent signs of self-mutilation.”

Crown:”What was LM's state of mind at the time?”

Prof. Paris: “He was optimistic for the future and not suicidal. Very anxious person. He feared being judged, feeling people not going to like him.

Prof. Paris: “LM denied hearing voices, having delusions. He was only paranoid about getting fat and went to the gym and looked at himself all the time. LM told me he had been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, but he said he thought noises in head were because he was heavily into drugs at the time. LM then told me his original diagnosis was amended later to bipolar disorder. He said he didn't need anti-psychotic medication.”

Crown: “Meeting recorded?”

Prof. Paris:”No.”

Prof. Paris: “LM told me he was hospitalized four times in Ontario and US. He told me about hearing noises in his head in the past. LM also told me about two suicide attempts, including subway jump. LM told me about taking two anti-psychotic medications and a sleeping pill and that his father suffered with schizophrenia. LM told me he had taken anti-depressants and was on anti-depressants and had taken them for some time before.”

Prof. Paris: “LM told me he had stopped cocaine use two years ago. He also had some alcohol overuse, two glasses of wine at dinner and before bed, hung over next day. Don't know if daily.”

Prof. Paris: “LM told me about family abuse including being raped by cousin when he was 14 and sexual involvement with stepmother. He identified himself as bisexual, highly promiscuous but used protection. He had serious romantic relationships, one with a man and two with women.”

Prof. Paris:” LM said he moved to Montreal to get away from his family and start anew. He described his family as sanctimonious, pontificating and nefarious in their actions.

Prof. Paris: “LM's voice was normal, not depressed, thought process mostly logical, but when anxious difficult to follow.”

Crown: “Anything to support he was schizophrenic on that day?”

Prof. Paris: “Not on the basis of consultation. Based on the interview alone, he did not present himself as someone who was suffering from such an illness.”

Crown:”No history of schizophrenia or bipolar affective disorder in report?”

Prof. Paris: “No evidence of extended period of psychosis. Unstable mood did not meet criteria. Best explanation was Borderline Personality Disorder – highly unstable mood, relationships (clingy, fear of abandonment). Also pattern of widespread impulsivity, i.e. suicidal gestures, drug use, used to cut himself. There were other factors such as unstable lifestyle, no firm attachments, history of prostitution.”

Prof. Paris: “I would rate LM as 'mildly impaired'. He had his own apartment, supported himself, few relationships, not hospitalized recently. He had a pattern of being overly attached to people, then being abandoned and disappointed.”

Prof. Paris:” I did not need to change medication because LM did not present signs of psychosis or bipolar disorder. I am still not sure why LM came to see me. He did not ask for specific medication.”

Crown: “Were you to see him again?”

Prof. Paris: “I would have been in charge of next stage of evaluation.”

Crown: “If LM suffered with schizophrenia would you have found out?”

Prof. Paris:”I am not certain. Possible to determine in one hour consultation. But possible patient can hide symptoms.”

Crown concludes questioning of Professor Paris.

Leclair: “From NY?”

Prof. Paris: “Yes”

Leclair refers to a conversation he had with Professor Paris.

Leclair: “What do you remember of the conversation?”

Prof. Paris: “If I had testimony helpful to Trial. Don't know if report was conclusive. I remember I didn't want to be called as a witness.”

Leclair: “You made a comment in reference to career?”

Prof. Paris: “ I mentioned I would have liked not to appear as expert witness as I wrap up my career.”

Leclair: “Remember saying it was the biggest mistake of your career?”

Prof. Paris: “No!”

Leclair: “The resident psychiatrist who was part of the assessment actually met with LM first?”

Prof. Paris: “I came in a few minutes later.”

Leclair: “Resident psychiatrist did first 20-30 minutes with LM.”

Prof. Paris: “It is possible I missed the first 10 minutes, not 20 minutes.”

Leclair suggests resident psychiatrist got witness after her consultation and then they asked questions together.

Prof. Paris: “I asked most of the questions with my resident psychiatrist. I brought LM in after consultation and present recommendations after I had conferred with my resident psychiatrist.”

Leclair insists on fact that Professor Paris had no collateral information to back up evaluation and hows him past medical reports.

Professor Paris points to note about paranoid schizophrenia and personality disorder, trying to figure out which one.
Leclair: “Not usual at beginning to have different diagnoses?”

Prof. Paris: “No.”

Leclair refers to various reports and Professor Paris acknowledges that he did not see those reports.

Prof. Paris:” I can only comment on my consultation with Luka Magnotta.”

Leclair: “What's strange about your report, you refer LM back to CLSC doctor. Clinic report says accused has bipolar disorder, taking medication for two months.”

Leclair: “So you were referring LM back to clinic for medical followup?”

Prof. Paris:” It is normal procedure.”

Leclair: “You said it was a complicated and difficult case, why did you say that?”

Prof. Paris: “I was told he was treated at different places and different diagnoses. Drugs may have been factor. May go back to childhood. LM said he lived in different places, no fixed address. So it was a challenge.”

Leclair: “Should have caused you concern LM was hospitalized four times? And get the records?”

Prof. Paris: “Usually we follow up with more detailed specialized consultation, sent back to referral doctor in the meantime. I do not take for granted diagnosis of schizophrenia, especially when LM didn't present symptoms at the time.”

Leclair: “Thought process mostly logical, what did you mean?”

Prof. Paris: “He was quite anxious, some moments he got off topic and we had to ask questions to get him back.”

Leclair: “Thought disorganization symptom of schizophrenia?”

Prof. Paris: “Yes, but part of much broader diagnosis.”

Leclair: “What does it tell you that LM's father is schizophrenic?”

Prof. Paris: “The risk is there but chance you don't develop same disorder as father.”

Leclair: “You didn't look for schizophrenia.”

Prof. Paris: “That is your opinion. LM was anxious as they pressed with questions but says not a symptom of schizophrenia.”

Leclair details list of symptoms of schizophrenia, i.e. delusions, disorganized speech, frequent derailment of thoughts.

Prof. Paris: “I remember the interviews rather vividly. At no time did LM have disorganized speech.”
Leclair: “You have bias towards Borderline Personality Disorder which you are known for.”

Prof. Paris:” Symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder include frantic efforts to avoid abandonment and unstable relationships fir the criteria. LM had many different relationships over time and was very promiscuous. LM had three serious romantic relationships, 1½ years with man ended in 2010.”

Leclair: “Unstable?”

Prof. Paris: “The pattern overall in lifetime in unstable. I would have needed another hour to talk about those relationships.”

Leclair shows Professor Paris an article he wrote about why psychiatrists are hestitant to diagnose Borderline Personality Disorder.

Leclair: “Self-cutting in LM's story?”

Prof. Paris: “LM said he did it in teen years.”

Leclair reads out case histories of people diagnosed with BPD.

Leclair: “Did LM go through similar tests?”

Prof. Paris: “No, he would have if he had been sent to Borderline Personality Disorder clinic.”

Leclair: “So tentative diagnosis?”

Prof. Paris: “Yes in those circumstances.”

Leclair: “If a person suffers from schizophrenia, therapy is useful but would need medication?”

Prof. Paris: “Primary treatment for schizophrenia is medication. LM told me he had stopped taking medication. I don't know for how long.”

Leclair: “So, if you had more time, you would have done test for Borderline Personality Disorder?”

Prof. Paris: “Yes.”

Leclair: “So you did not explore micro psychotic episodes/symptoms?”

Prof. Paris: “Contradiction. We did ask him about paranoid ideas but not being cut off from reality. Micro psychotic episode is a brief cut off from reality. Transient thing.”

Leclair: “Know Dr. Chamberland?”

Prof. Paris: “I just met him today.”

Leclair: “Did you discuss report?”

Prof. Paris: “I discussed personality disorder.”

Leclair: “When you found out about schizophrenia/psychiatric history, did you consult Candaian Med Protections Association?”

Prof. Paris: “No. I didn't see the need. It was one of the most unusual cases in my career. ”

Defence finished cross-examination. Witness excused.


Testimony from Dr. Joel Watts, 14th-19th November 2014

Defence witness, Dr. Joel Watts, who is a Psychiatrist at The Philippe Pinel Institute, Montreal, was instructed by Defence attorney, Luc Leclair, to provide expert assessment of Luka Magnotta's mental health in relation to the crimes.

He assessed Luka Magnotta over numerous sessions from September 2012-September 2013, for approximately 40-hours, before submitting his findings and diagnosis in a 124-page report.


Testimony from Dr. Joel Watts, 14th November 2014

Dr. Watts was hired by the Defence to assesss LM criminal responsibility. He first met LM on 14th September 2012 and numerous times form Sept 2012 – Sept 2013, and on one occasion in October this year. Total time 40 hours, 45mins.

Leclair: “Interviews by telephone?”

Dr. Watts: “Yes”

Dr. Watts: “I contacted LM's grandmother on 4th September 2013. Dr. Allan Tan on 3rd July 2013, 15 minute interview. Dr. Robert Weinstein on 27th February 2013, 10 minute conversation. LM's mother on 20th February, spoke for 35 minutes. Melissa Newman on 18th February spoke for 1 hour 10 minutes and again on 29th August 2013 for 10 minutes. Contacter lawyer Romeo Salta and then spoke with a former classmate.”

Dr. Watts: “I interviewed LM's dad in person on 4th January 2013 in Montreal, which lasted 1 hour and 20 minutes.”

Dr. Watts: “I had acess to police reports on various witnesses, such as Berlin and Montreal police officers and European witnesses.

Leclair: “So this is all the Crown disclosure provided to you as well as medical reports?

Dr. Watts: “Yes, much of it Crown disclosure.

Dr. Watts: “Survelliance video at Paris bus station, Hotel Novotel was among the evidence I received.”

Leclair: “Were you able to make a diagnosis?”

Dr. Watts: “Yes. At the time of charges against Magnotta I diagnosed him with an acute episode of psychosis and schizophrenia. Magnotta was able to appreciate physically what he was doing and consequences.”

Leclair: “LM know wronffulness of acts?”

Dr. Watts: “I evaluated LM on each individual charge. LM did not know it was wrong because of his psychosis.”

Dr. Watts: “I also considered if Lm had other motives related to other diagnoses.”

Leclair: “Easy to come to this opinion?”

Dr. Watts: “It was not easy, extremely difficult assessment for many different reasons. It took a great deal of time.”

Dr. Watts: “My report started in September 2012 and finished in February 2014. It was a quite arduous difficult process. The most difficult I have done yet.”

Leclair: “How involved were you in the case?”

Dr. Watts: “Back in June 2012 I was contacted by the head of psychiatry department at Pinel Institute, Dr. Renee Fougere. I was told that police were looking for a psychiatrist to accompany LM from Berlin to Montreal after his arrest. A requirement of the German Government. I was asked to do it. His other colleague who was there was not interested.”

Dr. Watts: “The mandate was not explained. I was not sure about it. It was the first time this has ever happened in Canada. I thought my role was to observe LM, provide him with medication and do a risk assessment when we arrived in Canada.”

Dr. Watts: “I first met LM on 18th June 2012 at Berlin Prison Hospital. The Berlin psychiatrist, Dr. Thomas Barth, was present and the meeting lasted 20-25 minutes.”

Showing Dr. Watts' handwritten notes on meeting LM. Ninteen pages of notes.

Dr. Watts: “Before I met LM, I gave him a warning about confidentiality because of the nature of the case. I told LM I would be observing him, giving him medication and when we returned to Montreal his treatment would end.”

Dr. Watts: “I provided release to allow me to share my notes when I was solicited by Defence to testify as an expert.”

Dr. Watts: “I was given information on the airplane by detectives: an overview of the investigation. The police told me there may have been staging of events by LM and that he seemed to seek attention.”

Dr. Watts noted: “Want to extradite a.s.a.p., because concerned if waited longer, other diplomatic problems. For diplomatic reasons, maintain good relations with Germany, agree to bring psychiatrist to accompany LM.”

Dr. Watts noted: “I had the impression that Dr. Thomas Barth, Berlin psychiatrist, made that request.”

Dr. Watts noted: “Police told me during flight from Montreal to Paris, Lm was sick, going to the bathroom despite frequenet air travel. Police told me they were concerned that LM would fake mental illness symptoms because he liked to put on a show. Police believed LM was happy with the plane ride, had narcissistic need for attention.”

Dr. Watts: “It was a military plane with personnel in military fatigues. I was the only psychiatrist, medical personnel. Others were police and military aircraft crew.”

Leclair: “Did you have any other independent information about charges facing LM?”

Dr. Watts: “No.”

Dr. Watts notes: “LM acting, faking: information came from police officer. Casual discussion on plane.”

Leclair: “Did this make you wary of certain aspects of LM?”

Dr. Watts: “I took it in as with any information, to me it was information that may or may not be pertinent. I had no involvement in the case and only other information was from media and public knowledge.”
Dr. Watts: “It was the early stages of the case and I had no information about LM whatsoever.”

Dr. Watts noted: “Detectives told me federal justice ministry confirmed it was the first time such a flight/extradition happened.”

Leclair: “Were you informed LM consented to extradition?”

Dr. Watts: “To my recollection, may be ruled as hearsay, I think I had been informed LM had consented.”

Leclair: “You were told that?”

Dr. Watts: “At some point. I don't remember who and when.”

Dr. Watts:” I wrote that I should meet with the Berlin psychiatrist, Dr. Thomas Barth, and get medical record and pharaceutical record. I wrote on 17th June 2012 that they had stayed on the plane for several hours.”

Judge tells Jury about definition of disclosure. Purpose to ensure anyone accused of an offence is aware of charges and evidence against them. Judge will instruct Jury on weight of expert witness testimony such as that of Dr. Watts. Crown disclosure is not important for Jury.

Defence moves on to the murder video and Dr. Watts' notes on it.

Dr. Watts notes on LM at post office and bringing parcels, his family, Ontario hospitals 2007-2010. LM being an escort, body part at Vancouver shcools, paranoid schizophrenia. Paranoid schizophrenia notes when Dr. Watts started getting information about LM from Dr. Thomas Barth.

Dr. Watts: “Information from Dr. Thomas Barth, Berlin psychiatrist, has already been provided when he testified.”

Dr. Watts' notes on meeing LM in Berlin prison hospital, lasting about 20-25 minutes. 18th June 2012 “just need cigarette”, LM said on entering the room.

Dr. Watts:”I noted that I told LM that what he told me was confidential but would likely be subpoenaed and entered into Court. I wanted to get a sense of what LM was like, with open-ended questions.”

Dr. Watts notes: “LM told me about getting steroids from an asshole named Robyn. He told me that since he was 19 he has been treated with anti-psychoic medication. LM told me that he wanted window closed, “was being watched by fucking witch”. He mentioned Debbie. I asked LM if he felt safe. LM said yes, but someone was spying on him and he was hearing voices. I asekd who the voices are, LM told him he didn't know. He thought people were following him and taking pictures of him.”

Dr. Watts notes:”LM told me the voices are like a radio in his head. He mentions Debbie again watching. LM told me his meds were helping him sleep. I asked if his anti-psychotic medication was reducing symptoms, he said yes but was still scared.”

Dr. Watts notes: “ I asked about street drugs. LM told me Manny gave him marijuana but he doesn't like doing drugs. LM told me they made him feel angry, scared and upset. LM told me that Manny laughed at him and forced him to drink more. He then mumbled something.”

Dr. Watts notes:”I asked about suicidal thoughts. LM said he had overdosed on pills, put him in restraints. LM says he tried to jump in front of a moving subway train and a passer-by intervened.”

Dr. Watts notes: “LM told me about being in group homes in Ontario.”

Dr Watts notes: “ I asked if he had any current suicidal thoughts. It was important to know current symptoms. LM said, “No”. LM said he was depressed about life and upset his grandmother was not talking to him.”

Dr. Watts notes: “I asked why he came to Berlin. LM said he met Frank on internet and told him to come and stay with him.”

Dr. Watts notes:” LM told me he was a prostitute and Manny forced him to prostitute himself.”

Dr. Watts notes: “I asked Dr. Thomas Barth if LM's demeanour was same. He said yes according to last visit.”

Dr. Watts: “Dr. Thomas Barth told me LM has same child-like tone to his voice during his interview. LM looked down during interview, looked at me a few times, affect (expression) was flat. LM's expression showed no variation, typical of depressed, psychotic state.”

Dr. Watts: “LM's inflection was child-like, almost whiny, sometimes he sounded like he was asking a question. I wanted to remind LM I wasn't there to take care of him but to take him back to Canada. LM said he remembered bit of warning.”

Dr. Watts: “The warning about confidentiality.”

Dr. Watts: “LM complained about stomach pain and asked to go to the bathroom.”

Leclair: “So no handcuffs, no police?”

Dr. Watts: “No.”

Dr. Watts:” “LM's complaining has dramatic quality to it.”

Dr. Watts: “Some patients have disorganized form of psychosis and would have strange posture, talk to themselves. Not in LM's case. He didn't answer questions directly. He said he wasn't orientated, i.e. date, time etc.”

Dr. Watts: “LM said medication was helpful with sleep, but not relief of psychotic symptoms. Not hostile, was calm and cooperative. I noted that perhaps a flat expression and unmodulated due in part to medication.”

Dr. Watts: “My initial impression: a show. I was wondering whether LM was trying to put on a show as police had suggested. It was a suspicion I had at the time. I had not seen any prior medical records.”

Dr. Watts: “What made me suspect LM may be faking: wincing, saying he heard voices.”

Leclair: “If someone told you they were schizophrenic?”

Dr. Watts: “If I knew a person had psychiatric past, I would delve further. Otherwise they could be setting up a defence of not criminally responsible.”

Dr. Watts: “My role is to assess a patient objectively and has to be more suspicious of thing I am told that may not be true.”

Leclair: “What is your impression of Dr. Thomas Barth? What perspective does he have?”

Dr. Watts: “He thought LM was truly psychotic. Still suffering from schizophrenia. He was convinced of this.”

Dr. Watts: “I was suspicious because I had no information. My degree of suspicion was higher and Dr. Barth met LM for a week.”

Dr. Watts notes:”LM said he had known Frank for two years.”

Dr. Watts: “I now know this is not true, he met Frank and corresponded with him for a short while.”

Dr. Watts:”I considered this and other inconsistent statements. It was not a major issue. I now think LM was truly psychotic at the time. In that state people mix up dates, jump around in time, misquote or misreport timelines. It wasn't incompatible with what a psychotic person can report.”

Dr. Watts: “I met LM at the airport. LM was handcuffed and shackled and read his rights. LM was seated and shackled into seat. There was a delay in taking off. When we landed LM was escorted off and I observed him all the while.”

Dr. Watts: “ I asked him if he was having suicidal thoughts or wanting to hurt anybody and I gave him medication. LM said no. So I thought I had done my due diligence and he could let him go with police.

Dr. Watts:”I thought I would accompany LM to police station. It was the last time I saw LM prior to the psychiatric interviews.”

Dr. Watts:”LM was calm with a flat expression when he was brought on the plane. He had the same child-like tone of voice and was reassured by my presence. Detectives were sitting next to LM and I was sitting to the right hand side of them. I asked LM a few times if he wanted to talk and said he didn't want to make any statements at the time.”

Dr. Watts:”LM was expressionless, didn't say anything, asked to go to the bathroom. LM didn't ask for anything. The plane got cold and they noticed that he was shivering so they gave him a blanket. He thanked them. While waiting for take-off LM was quiet, didn't say much.”

Dr. Watts:”I gave LM three meds, an anti-psychotic, anti-anxiety and one for tummy problems. I gave him a relatively small dosage of anti-psychotic medication.”

Moving on to Dr. Watts' report.

Dr. Watts: “I had a telephone interview with LM's mother on 20th February 2013. The interview lasted for 35 minutes.”

Dr. Watts:”LM had reservations about me speaking to family members because he had difficult
relations with his family. But he agreed it would be important. His mother and grandmother were reticent to speak, but his sister, Melissa, was less so.”

Dr. Watts:”I asked LM's mother when she last spoke to her son, and she said March or April 2012. LM told her he was going to California. She told me LM was preoccupied, looking around in suspicious, anxious manner. I asked her about LM's Miami hospitalization and she told me she had refused to tell hospital staff that LM was not ill. He got mad at her and they didn't speak for a year, she described it as a “blowout”.”

Dr. Watts: “She told me she was getting information from her mother, LM's grandmother Phyllis Yourkin, that LM was married and living in Russia. She told me that hen they started speaking again in late 2011 she thought LM was lying about Russia and suspected he was living in Montreal. She said thatshe suspected LM made the cat killing video, despite his denials.”

Dr. Watts: “LM's mother told me she got a Mother's Day card in May 2012 containing $20. I ask her about LM's psychiatric history and she was aware he suffered from schizophrenia when he was younger. She told me LM talked about hating people, watching him, and heard voices of Marilyn Monroe talking to him.”

Dr. Watts: “His mother worried how unwell LM was over the years. She said his behaviour escalated at the time of the Homolka dating rumours. He told her “people are looking at me because I'm devastatingly gorgeous.” His mother thought his “social cues were off”, and he would “laugh and joke inappropriately” and “talk in third person” . She said he would talk in third person “with grandiose accent.”

Dr. Watts: “LM's mother told me she expressed motherly concern, worried about LM's mental state, and frustrated that LM was not truthful with her (lying about Russian marriage). “

Leclair: “Did you ask LM's mother about the murder?”

Dr. Watts: “I can't recall if I asked specifically. I had already gleaned from her that she hadn't had much contact with LM. Not worthwhile going into any detail since she had no contact or information at the time. I had no plans to have any other contact with LM's mother.”

Dr. Watts spoke to LM's maternal grandmother, Phyllis Yourkin, on 4th September 2013. Grandmother was not initially interested in speaking to him. Back to Dr. Watts' interview with LM's sister, Melissa.

Dr. Watts notes:”I spoke to Melissa on 18th February 2013. She said she always had a good relationship with LM and had regular contact through email. Their parents separated, LM moved in with his maternal grandmother because of stepfather abuse. She said LM was socially withdrawn, shy and awkward as a kid. Their brother Conrad would call LM gay when he was a teen. She said LM's personality changed over the years since 2006 and became more distant, eyes vacant, less of a sense of humour. She said LM changed his name because of “bad memories” and he wanted to “reinvent” himself.”

Dr. Watts notes:”Melissa said in March 2012 she called LM via Skype. She said LM “looked dazed, had a wig, wasn't Eric, thought he was possessed. She said he head a blank look and what he was saying was not making sense.”

Dr. Watts: “I told his sister, Melissa, that people in a psychotic state would jump around topic to topic. She said LM was like this. She said LM would talk about food and then talk about his grandmother's hair. She said it was harder to keep in contact with LM because he kept changing email accounts.”

Dr. Watts notes:”LM's sister said he wrote an email to her in February 2012 with a link to a video of a snake eating a cat, where he said “He did it for her”.

Dr. Watts notes:”LM's sister Melissa said LM emailed her three days before his arrest, saying “How does it feel to be the sister of a murderer?”. Then she said contact ended.”

Dr. Watts notes:”My next conversation with Melissa was August 2013, once I had received more Crown disclosure showing texts between LM and his sister on 24th and 25th May 2012. There was a telephone call between LM's number and his sister's number.”

Dr. Watts:”I wanted to know what the conversation was about as it may be pertinent to LM's mental state at the time of the murder.”

Leclair:”Was this the last contact between LM and his sister?”

Dr. Watts:”There was no contact between email in Feburary 2012 and the email three days before his arrest on 1st June 2012. There were call and texts to number belonging to LM's sister Melissa, who seemed surprised but then recalled them. The conversation lasted 4 minutes but she could not remember what they had discussed at 7.22am on 25th May 2012.”

Lecalir:”So morning after LM met Jun Lin?”

Dr. Watts: “Correct”.

Leclair:”How reliable is sister?”

Crown objects. Defence wants to address the issue without the Jury. Court adjourned.

Witness Testimony Dr. Joel Watts, 17th November 2014

Judge tells Jury closing arguments should take place 1st week of December,they will start to deliberate sometime that week

Defence continues with Dr. Watts, starting with what trial heard last Friday, about an email.

Dr. Watts:”I never saw that email so I concluded that it probably didn't exist. I didn't put much weight on information from LM's sister, Melissa.”

Dr. Watts:”LM's 2003 medical records note “whiny and childlike” voice, feeling like he is being watched through window. I noted same traits in accused in Berlin.”

Dr. Watts:”The theme with LM over years was feeling he was being persecuted by Government agencies. This is common in schizophrenia patients.”

Dr. Watts:”LM consumes alcohol in a regular way, not problematic. Same with drug use, occasional, he does not have a problem with drugs.”

Leclair shows surveillance of LM entering and exiting his apartment block on 25th May 2012.

Dr. Watts:”I can't see anything unusual in behaviour. LM seems relatively calm, normal. Not talking to himself. It's hard to glean any useful information from video. LM looking at himself in lobby mirror is because he's preoccupied with his appearance due to low self-esteem. Feels unloved.”

Dr. Watts:”It's hard to glean information from surveillance videos. LM shows organized behaviour, has a neutral expression. It is possible to be psychotic, have feelings of persecution, and still show organized behaviour.”

Dr. Watts:” LM told me he couldn't remember why he wore Jun Lin's clothing, other than he thought they looked nice, especially the ball cap. He knew there were cameras in the building, but it didn't bother him. He doesn't look like he's hiding from camera.”

Dr. Watts:”LM told me Manny was a client he met in NYC. He knew it was an abusive relationship but he didn't feel he could get away. LM said Manny was a member of Church of Scientology and that he didn't want LM to take his medication so he took it away.”

Dr. Watts:”LM told me that Manny forced him to make videos killing animals and that he didn't want to but was scared of Manny. LM's emotional behaviour when recounting things that upset him was consistent with his words. It seemed genuine.”

Dr. Watts:”LM's disjointed speech pattern, going onff on tangential topics, made it hard for me to understand chronology. Common with schizophrenia.  Manny is maybe a real person but at some point LM's experience with Manny ceased to be based in reality and became halluninations.”

Defence is finished with Dr. Watts. Cross-examination begins.

The Crown open cross-examination by asking how it came about that Dr. Watts was sent to Berlin to accompany LM to Montreal.


Crown:”How many shirts did you pack to go to Berlin?”

Defence objects. Jury sent out for legal discussions.

Dr. Watts:”I felt part of the team going to pick up LM from Berlin, but I didn't feel like a police officer. I was there to accompany him. I was the treating psychiatrist for LM while on flight from Berlin, but I wouldn't treat him once back in Canada. It was the first time a Canadian psychiatrist was involved in an extradition, it was high profile. I was professionally proud and excited.”

Crown:”Why did you work for police at first and then change sides to work for defence?

Dr. Watts:” I wouldn't call it “changing sides”.”

Jury dismissed for the day so that legal discussion can take place.

Testimony from Dr. Joel Watts, 18th November 2014

Judge tells Jury that the Crown's statement yesterday that Dr. Watts worked for Montreal Police is legally inaccurate. He tells the Jury they can take into account that he was a former attending psychiatrist in Germany and his initial opinion in weighing his conclusions. But Jury should not think that Dr. Watts worked for the Police or owed any loyalty to Police Service when he decided to accept mandate from defence.

Crown continuing cross-examination of Dr. Watts.

Dr. Watts:”It was important for me to talk to family members, which can add value to diagnosis. If family members had any contact with accused around time of offence they could provide important information.”

Crown speaking about LM's friend Rebecca whom LM said was involved in making the cat torture videos.

Dr. Watts:”I didn't find her. LM gave no last name. I was also unable to get any description of Rebacca's age, race religion, nothing. I didn't think it was important information. “

Crown:”So we don't know if this Rebecca is a real person or not?”

Dr. Watts:”We could say that, I don't know if she's real.”

Crown:”How much did you try to find Manny?”

Dr. Watts:”I would very much have liked to speak with Manny but LM gave me no information to help track Manny down. LM told me Manny was an American citizen living in NYC when he met him.”

Dr. Watts:”LM was working as an escort in Montreal but to a lesser extent than in Toronto and NYC because he felt he was being followed..”

Crown:”LM earned between $1000-$2000 per week working as an escort.”

Dr. Watts:”Probably more than one client a day.”

Crown:”Did you ask LM whether he drugged Jun Lin to subdue and kill him?”

Dr. Watts:”I asked him about many motives.”

Crown:”Did you ask how Temazepam ended up in wine bottle?

Dr. Watts:”Colombian took cocaine and was jumpy. LM was drinking wine.”

Crown:”Was the Temazepam that Jun Lin took enough to subdue him?”

Dr. Watts:”If not used to it, it can sedate, making Jun Lin less able to fend off attack, but not clear he was attacked before his death.”

Dr. Watts:”LM was ashamed, too anxious to talk of some things with him, such as the cat videos. But then he brought it up later.”

The Crown moves on to email sent to Alex West at the Sun newspaper.

Crown:”If LM sent this email to scare them, why didn't he use his own name?”

Dr. Watts:”Maybe he thought they would guess it was him – they did.”

Crown: “So he was playing games?”

Dr. Watts:” Yes, but not for fun, to scare.”

Dr. Watts is not sure if LM's mother was unwilling to talk to him, or if only his grandmother was. He checks notes.

Dr. Watts:”LM told me that he bought the saw while living at a previous apartment. He can't remember why he bought it and can't remember using it. The unidentified man was not a client. LM put an advert on Craigslist because he was lonely and wanted sex without being paid for it. He met him via Craigslist in order to have a threesome with Manny.”

Dr. Watts:”I asked LM why he had the saw in his hand in video with unidentified Colombian man. LM said he never thought of killing or hurting him. He also couldn't remember turning on camera on Colombian man.”

Crown:”Did Manny ask him to record LM having sex with Colombian man or him snoring and being out of it?

Dr. Watts:”He didn't recall.”

Crown asks about suitcase in which LM dumped Jun Lin's torso.

Dr. Watts: “I did not ask why LM put a lock on it or spray painted it. I was unaware of those details.”

Crown shows photos of suitcase found in trash outside LM's apartment block.

Crown:”You can see it's been spray painted.”

Dr. Watts: “I did not ask about that. I thought LM may have done something to hide suitcase, so I asked about lacerations but I wish I had known about the paint. I was thinking that perhaps LM slashed the suitcase in order to make it more difficult to ID Jun Lin.”

Dr. Watts:”The camera found in trash was part of stuff that LM could not recall. He didn't remember why it was in the trash, why he used it and when. LM didn't know why he filmed some things and not others.”

Dr. Watts:”I cannot recall seeing a photo of screwdriver painted silver and I didn't ask LM about it.”

Crown focusing on questions that Dr. Watts asked LM that went unanswered. There were many. Crown also points out there are many questions that Dr. Watts did not ask LM, for example, why he bought new sheets for the mattress.

Dr. Watts:”Some details seem to indicate LM was trying to hide what he had done, but on surveillance cam he doesn't look like hiding.”

Crown:”Did you ask LM about photos of Jun Lin and LM on the computer seized in Berlin?”

Dr. Watts:”No.”

Crown:”You didn't ask why LM deleted information from computer that could get him in trouble, such as pics and video? Didn't find it relevant?”

Dr. Watts:”The Crown raises good points, but I focused on what seemed pertinent about LM's mental state, I didn't act as investigator. You are right it could go either way.”

Crown:”LM told you that he stayed with Chris in Paris for a few days, did you confront him that it was just one night?

Dr. Watts:”No. Stress and feelings of persecution seemed diminished after the murder so LM could go out and party in Europe. Not unusual.”

Dr. Watts:”LM couldn't remember how or when he uploaded his video (1 Lunatic 1 Ice Pick) to the internet.”

Crown:”Did you ask him why he used the username Catherine on his computer?

Dr. Watts:”No.”

Crown:”Did you ask him about Manny in Basic Instinct?”

Dr. Watts:”No.”

Dr. Watts:”I didn't ask about Basic Instinct, but LM volunteered information about the film and Sharon Stone.”

Crown:”Did he tell you that he went by the name Sharon at one point?”

Dr. Watts:”I don't recall that.”

Judge points out reference in Dr. Watts' report. In 2008-09 LM used name Catherine when working as an escort. As teen dressed up in grandmother's clothing.

Crown now asks about LM's drug use. He told Dr. Watts that he was offered illegal drugs at times by clients, but he would mostly refuse. Crown shows Dr. Watts a text message log. It shows LM exchanging texts with somebody to obtain marijuana.

Dr. Watts:”It was the the first time I have seen those text messages. It's relevant but not inconsistent with what LM told me.”

Crown:”LM says Manny called many times on night of killing, did you verify this with phone records?”

Dr. Watts:”I admit I didn't think of it.”

Crown suggests chronology not right in LM's version given to Dr. Watts and suggests that Jun Lin was alive while accused going in and out of apartment.

Dr. Watts:”It's common for patient's versions to lack clear-cut chronology. It's possible LM's sequence of events does not fit with video.”

Dr. Watts:”LM told me he didn't want to remember it.”

Crown:”What does this mean?”

Dr. Watts:”LM said he didn't like doing sexual acts with Jun Lin's body. Felt sick. “

Crown:”So he remembered that?

Dr. Watts:”LM was crying in bathroom because he didn't want to have sex with Jun Lin any more.”

Crown:”But then he had sex with the corpse.”

Dr. Watts:”Well he didn't have sex with the corpse, he performed sexual acts on part of Jun Lin's body.”

Court adjourns for the day.

Testimony from Dr. Watts, 19th November 2014.

Judge says he has three questions for Dr. Joel Watts from the Jury.

Question 1: What would be the effect of Temazepam, Benadryl and alcohol on someone going through paranoid psychosis?

Dr. Watts:” They don't have effect on making psychosis worse or better, depends on person. More an effect on state of wakefulness. No effect on hallucinations or delusions. Effect would have effect of making person more sedated.”

Crown asks about Benadryl:”On the18th and not the 24th of May right?”

Dr. Watts:”Yes”

Question 2: Psychosis in Miami beach caused by medication?

Dr. Watts: “Definitely not taking meds did have an impact.

On Page 87 of Dr. Watts' report LM not sure if used own memory to answer question or recollection of info from lawyer.

Question 3:”What extent can it be biased or influenced by info rather than LM's memory?

Dr. Watts:”LM's self-report can be biased because doesn't know if it was own memory or what he was shown. Whether LM was making things up, it would come from his psychosis and not necessarily from things he was shown. I believe LM was not makng things up.”

Dr. Watts: “What LM remembers of killing is “atypical”. I think LM voluntarily doesn't remember all due to trauma, stress and guilt.”

Dr. Watts:”I asked LM about online postings from before killing allegedly promoting video of Jun Lin's death. I can't recall where I got that information but I thought it important enough to ask LM about it.”

Dr. Watts:”LM told me 'I've been trying to make sense of it, I hope it was not me, I don't remember doing it, it feels weird.'”

Dr. Watts:”LM also told me he visited gore sites.”

Dr. Watts:”LM withheld information several times, but would often bring stuff up in later meetings. e.g. visit with Jewish General Hospital psychiatrist (Dr. Joel Paris). LM told me that he lied in April 2012 to Dr. Paris because he didn't want them to keep him there and told JGH he denied hearing voices and said he was addicted to drugs.

Dr. Watts:”He told me he didn't want me to think he was addicted to drugs.”

Crown:”How is it that LM stopped hearing Manny voice after sending body parts packages?”

Dr. Watts:”It's not unusual, part of fluctuating nature of psychosis.”

Crown asks Dr. Watts: “If LM was malingering (exaggeration of symptoms to achieve a goal) and is getting away with murder?”

Crown:”Why did LM keep Jun Lin's baseball cap and bring it to Berlin?”

Dr. Watts:”He wore it because he liked it, he liked wearing nice things.”

The Crown now asks about discrepencies in different versions LM gave to Dr. Watts and Dr. Allard.

Dr. Watts:”LM remembered some things with Dr. Allard, example Sharon Stone. The presence of different voices too.”

Crown comes back to malingering, which is faking or exaggerating symptoms of a mental disorder.

Dr Watts:”I eliminated it when I examined LM.”

Crown done with cross-examination. Defence asks Dr. Watts to read DSM definition of 'malingering'.

Dr. Watts: “LM only met 1 of the 4 criteria on malingering outlined in manual on mental disorders (DSM). Forensic psychiatrists required to inquire, but not investigate. If information missing, we work with what we have.”

Dr. Watts: “Just because a person has some memory loss doesn't mean they are faking symptoms of a mental illness.

Leclair shows Watts 3 news articles from 2012 with photos, similar to photos found on LM's computer. Lin on left, Magnotta on right.

Dr. Watts: “I never asked LM about the photos, or if he put them in the "unallocated clusters" on his computer.

Dr Watts: “The links to film Basic Instinct weren't that important to me while I was assessing LM. I didn't ask questions about it.”

Defence done. Witness excused.


Testimony from Dr. Marie-Frédérique Allard, 6th-13th November 2014

Dr. Marie-Frédérique Allard
Defence witness, Dr. Marie-Frédérique Allard, who is a forensic Psychiatrist, was instructed by Defence attorney, Luc Leclair, to provide expert assessment of Luka Magnotta's mental health in relation to the crimes. She has been in practice as a psychiatrist for 15 years.

Over the course of 8 sessions she spent roughly 25 hours assessing Luka Magnotta, before submitting her findings and diagnosis in a 100-page report.

Dr. Allard: “LM was suffering from schizophrenia on 25th May 2012 when he killed Jun Lin.  LM knew he was stabbing Lin and committing the acts but didn't know his actions were wrong. LM was living in real world but was in psychosis on 25th May 2012.”

Dr. Allard goes though medical notes from April 2001 when LM was seen several times by community workers in a crisis centre at Ross Memorial Hospital in Lindsay, Ontario. He was referred to a psychiatrist. “I am not sure what we're dealing with. Bizarre, interesting presentation”, wrote a psychiatrist who saw LM when he was 18.  About one per cent of the population has schizophrenia and typical age of onset is 18. Psychiatrist wondered if there were secondary gains LM was looking for. He had gone in for sore throat but said he heard voices.

Dr. Allard: “It can take several months or years to say with certainty that it's schizophrenia.”

Dr. Allard: “LM went to community crisis centre about six times but didn't follow up appointment with doctor. That tells me he was feeling well. At beginning of disease, it's difficult to admit that you hear voices”

Dr. Allard: “I saw LM about 8 times for several hours each time. Spent about 25 hours with him. Most difficult patient of my career. Hard for him to talk about symptoms. Wondered on first meeting whether LM was making up symptoms.”

Dr. Allard: “Most common symptoms that are faked are hallucinations – hearing or seeing things. You could feel someone touching you but no one is there; you smell things that aren't there. People taste things and think they are being poisoned – all these things are very common in our work.”

Dr, Allard: “Generally in schizophrenia there are hallucinations but not continuous. They can do things to lessen them too. Some will say 'I hear in my head'.”

Leclair: “But what if they learned that from growing up with a schizophrenic?”

Dr. Allard: “Could happen. But it depends how they act too. We observe a lot”

Dr. Allard: “LM was an interesting case, medical wise. Father suffered from mental illness and there was a lot of stigma. LM didn't want to be labelled too, and not have family. He didn't want to be sick, didn't want to appear to be sick.”

Dr. Allard: “LM's view of himself: he wanted to succeed, to enjoy himself. He was very isolated as a young child. It was all connected."

Dr. Allard: “Alain Pichet was a man evaluated in 2007, father was schizophrenic. Pichet committed serious crime.” 

Crown asks if it's relevant.  Jury sent out.

Leclair talking about Ross Memorial Hospital in Lindsay, Ontario, where LM went on 26th August 2001, when he was 18.  (surely being born in July 1982 LM was 19 in August 2001?)

Dr. Allard: "LM came to emergency department on 26th August 2001 because he was out of medication.  The file notes personality disorder.  The next day, 27th August 2001, LM went back and the diagnosis was paranoid schizophrenia."

Dr. Allard: "LM took too much medication from presciption on 26th August 2001, the whole bottle actually."

Dr. Allard: "LM was already known as paranoid schizophrenic.  He lived in home for people with the illness. So it's not surprising he tried several times to kill himself.  He felt isolated in group home."

Dr. Allard tells the Court that she has been practising for 15 years.

Court adjourns.  Dr. Allard continues her testimony on Monday 10th November 2014.

Continuing with Testimony from Dr. Marie-Frédérique Allard 10th November 2014


LM Defence attorney, Luc Leclair, files psychiatric reports into evidence.

Dr. Marie-Frédérique Allard continues her testimony, going through 127-page medical report detailing Luka Magnotta's medical history under various psychiatrists.

25th March 2002
- LM told psychiatrist he thought the FBI was after him. His Grandmother wanted him to stay in group home for youth with psychiatric problems. LM said he didn't have any other illnesses. Didn't have panic attacks or mania, PTSD. Drank 1 glass wine or bubbly at Xmas. Didn't smoke pot or use cocaine. But took sleeping pills and anti-psychotic.LM talked about his father's schizophrenia and alcoholism. Mother home schooled him til grade 6.

LM was not suicidal during the 2002 evaluation. Didn't show any emotion. He was able to say he was mentally ill. Psychiatrist looked at possible personality disorder. Diagnosis was schizophrenia, no personality disorder. Stress factor: unemployed in Toronto. LM wasn't functioning at a very high level at that time (2002). Taking anti-psychotic medication.


July 2002 - LM saw his dad's psychiatrist when he was 20. Was in Scarborough. LM prescribed anti-depressant. Doctor diagnoses paranoid schizophrenia but said there were no symptoms at the time.

Dr Allard: “Schizophrenics can have other symptoms other than hallucinations that prevent them from working of living alone.”

March 2003
Psychiatrist, Dr. Sooriabalan, saw LM regularly between 28th February 2003 - 3rd October 2008. On first appointment LM thought police were after him. LM admitted himself to hospital, wanting to kill himself but not able to because of mother.

25th March 2003 - LM told Dr. Sooriabalan that he “couldn't take it any more.”

6th April 2003 - LM closed the curtains because he thought someone was watching him. Stayed in Rouge Valley Health Centenary Centre until 7th April 2003. Discharged with out-patient follow up appointment.

In 2004 LM accused of fraud. In April 2005, his mother wrote to psychiatrist to say she was very concerned about his mental health.


Whilst in group home for mentally ill youth, LM thought people were jealous of him and wanted him out of home. LM said people were jealous of him because “I am going to be a celebrity, a superstar”

6th January 2004 - LM moved from Lindsay, Ontario, to Toronto and lived with a Greek family. “I hear voices, they are laughing at me.”

19th August 2004 - LM started going to Church of Scientology and moved in with a Jamaican family.

December 2004 – told Dr. Sooriabalan that his father didn't like Magnotta and lied to him.

February 2005 – LM told Dr.Sooriabalan that he doesn't belong in Toronto, he belongs in LA.


30th May 2005 - Psychiatrist wrote to LM's lawyer at the time, Peter Scully, to say LM suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. Psychiatrist told LM's lawyer, Peter Scully, that LM had been hospitalized twice in 2003. Said he missed meds because he didn't come to outpatients appointments.

Dr. Allard : “It is not unusual for young patients to miss their meds.”


29th August 2006 – Dr.Sooriabalan learns that LM changed his name from Eric Newman to Luka Rocco Magnotta.

18th January 2007 - LM tells Dr.Sooriabalan that he has started modelling. In May, LM felt police were investigating him, people didn't like him, calls from USA.

21st August 2007 – LM told Dr.Sooriabalan people spreading rumours about him that he was dating serial killer Karla Homolka. LM can't sleep.

18th October 2007 – LM tells doctor he's been making porn movies. Doctor suggests hospitalization, LM refuses.

LM didn't show up for appointments on 4th December 2008, 20th March 2009 and 26th June 2009.

26th October 2009 – LM started seeing Doctor Robert Weinstein at North York General Hospital, Toronto. Dr Weinstein says things changed for LM at 19 years old.

LM told Dr. Weinstein, that he had boyfriend who would get nose bleeds and paints the words “I love you” with blood on LM's apartment door.
 

May 2010 - Dr. Weinstein diagnosed LM as schizophrenic, somewhat unstable. LM didn't show up for appointment in March 2010. Next one was in April, he showed up. Taking estate agent course. Stressful.

4th July 2010 - LM tells Dr. Weinstein that his boyfriend pays for apartment and LM thinks he just uses him for sex. Dr. Weinstein wrote:“Clearly there are many difficulties in this relationship”. I question whether this boyfriend has a drug problem.”

13th August 2010 – Dr Weinstein: Things not going well for LM . Ex harassing him. Appears to have lost weight. Had to give up on real estate course. Stress. Dr. Weinstein tells LM that he has to take his medication, especially in times of stress. This appointment was the last time he was seen at North York General Hospital.

LM lived in Harrison House twice, 2001 and 2003. Group home for people with mental illness. LM wrote in 2003 to head of group home, about another resident who was doing cocaine in his room.

LM wrote a 5-page letter to his mother:”I love you but we really need to have a talk and I have to get this off my chest.” LM writes to his mother about someone he hated who came to their home. “Am sick to death of him brainwashing family. He's an alcoholic, violent, dirty scumbag who can't provide for his family. I had to move out or would have died of nervous breakdown.”

Dr Allard:”80 per cent of schizophrenic patients will go off medication within 5 years. Sometimes because they're feeling better.”

Sue Montgomery: “LM seems to be listening quite closely to this testimony”

January 2011 - LM was admitted to Mount Sinai Hospital, Miami, after being brought in by police. Had been given substance and was confused. LM discharged from Miami hospital and told to come back if he becomes depressed or manic.

Dr: Allard:  “I met with LM in January 2014. There were things he had heard from his lawyer or media, so was hard to separate things. All these medical records are very important to know where LM was coming from.”

17th April 2012 – LM was screened at Jewish General Hospital clinic where he said he was followed in Ontario but didn't have psychiatrist in Montreal. LM talked about chronic feelings of emptiness as well as fears of being cheated on and of abandonment. Impulsive. LM said he had tried to kill himself twice, once aged 15-years-old he tried to jump in front of subway train and at 19-years old he took an overdose of meds. LM's mother forced him to wear diapers from aged 6-8 years old and locked his brother in closed. Male cousin raped him repeatedly at 14. LM told doctors at JGH that he moved to Montreal to start life away from family: sanctimonious, pontificating and nefarious in actions. LM showed up at appointment wearing a wig. Conclusion at Jewish General Hospital was Borderline Personality Disorder, psychosis, brought on by history of cannabis and cocaine abuse.

Dr. Allard: “Jewish General Hospital were not aware of LM's past psychiatric history. LM did not talk about his psychotic symptoms with Jewish General Hospital doctors. I asked him why and he said he was afraid to be hospitalized.”

Dr. Allard: “There is information from him that was false, some true and some that couldn't be verified.”

Dr. Allard talks about Dr. Thomas Barth's report.

Objection from Crown. Overruled.

Dr. Allard: “Dr. Barth came to diagnosis in just a week, but one needs at least a month with a patient to do that.”

Between September 2007 and October 2010, LM filed six complaints with Toronto Police saying he was a victim of various things. Death threats. LM said he was victim of article published in a newspaper that he was dating killer Karla Homolka. LM told Toronto Police that he got phone message from someone looking for sex who ended message with, “Heil Hitler”. LM also told Police he got calls from someone using homophobic slurs and saying he would be stabbed one day.

Dr. Allard: “The six complaints filed by LM could have stemmed form his sex work life, which was high risk.”

LM claimed to have been sexually assaulted by two men while he was on trip to Paris in October 2010.

Court adjourns for the day. Continues tomorrow.


It is important to note that this testimony is confined to medical reports about Luka Magnotta's mental health condition at various point in his life.  To put this information into context one must also look at biographical information about Luka Magnotta's lifestyle and employment activities during this period.  See Luka's Lifestory page. 


Continuing with Testimony from Dr. Marie-Frédérique Allard, 11th November 2014

Trial News: Magnotta admits he is the 'kitten killer'!  Magnotta admits that he did send the 'John Kilbride' email to Alex West!

Dr. Marie-Frédérique Allard continues her testimony, starting off by going through correspondence from Luka Magnotta to lawyers in January 2011 regarding claims of abuse by 'Manny'.

January 2011 - LM wrote to a NY lawyer, Romeo Salta, regarding calling 911 after Manny trying to kidnap him. LM accuses Manny of raping him, taking him to Miami, forcing him to drink Gatorade that made him pass out. LM woke up in a night club and was forced to have sex with others. He tells NY lawyer, Romeo Salta, that he called Miami Police but they didn't take it seriously.

Police took LM to Mount Sinai Hospital, Miami, but wasn't taken seriously and he was placed in the psychiatric ward for 24 hours. LM filed complaint with the hospital saying he was victimized twice because no one believed him. "This guy is dangerous", LM said regarding Manny.

LM said he had photos to back his story and hoped police would be held responsible.

25th January 2011 - LM writes to Romeo Salta again and said he was staying away from dangerous people and hoped to live quite life as possible.

LM wrote to another lawyer regarding ex named Ron, who was “abusive, liar, cheating, harassing my mother, stalking me.”

Manny was a US client who wanted LM to kill kittens, threatened to kill LM if he didn't kill cats.  LM said Manny stabbed him with pencil and pen, cut him with a knife because he wouldn't kiss his feet, held his head in a bucket of water. LM said Manny forced him to have sex with a puppy and numerous cats, wrapped his body in plastic bag and insulted him.

LM says he was forced to brush Manny's teeth. Manny told him he knew detectives who would hunt him down and kill him if he left. Manny said if LM didn't stare into his eyes as they had sex, he would cut off his eyelids. If LM didn't wear the right cologne, he'd have to eat soap. If LM didn't call Manny 'master', he was forced to sit in dark closet with plastic bag over his head. Forced to wear women's clothes.

Going over LM's school records. Was home schooled until 10 years old. Eager to learn once went to school in Grade 6.

LM had hard time making decisions. Difficulty spelling and writing, impulsive under stress.

LM said his mother abused him too. Put him in dirty diaper's until he was 7-years old. They had 5 rabbits when LM was 8-years old. Mother put them outside and they froze to death.

LM claimed to be closer to his sister, Melissa, and said she always tried to make everybody happy. But she was two-faced. LM felt betrayed by his sister several times. Parents divorced when he was 13-years old. Mother could be nice but then changed in a moment.

"My father never abused the kids but never defended them either", LM told a psychiatrist. Moved in with paternal grandparents in Toronto. LM said he never had friends because he didn't know how to make friends. Dressed differently. Grandmother dressed him like a girl.

LM made friends with a handicapped girl who was also isolated. Changed schools a lot. Quit in Grade 11.  LM thought his illness had something to do with him quitting school. Father always found it odd that kids were home-schooled.

Grandmother, Phyllis Yourkin, was one of the most important people in LM's life. Was like his mother. LM was abused physically and sexually by his step-father, especially when he drank. LM didn't understand why his mother didn't do anything about it. He was 13 or 14 and always anxious.

Dr. Allard: “LM admits that he was the one who started rumours regarding Karla Homolka. He understands he was the one who started it. Was stupid.”

Dr. Allard: “LM put it online to provoke people, to show that he was harassed.”

Dr. Allard: “ For a long time I wanted to know if Manny really existed or if LM made him up. I determined he did fact exist but hard to say what role he played or if part of psychosis.”

LM claims Manny forced him to kill the animals and make videos, otherwise he would beat him and call police on him."

Dr. Allard: “For LM everything that happened with Manny was real.  He didn't believe he was in the midst of psychosis.”

Dr. Allard: “LM's psychosis could cause him to exaggerate things, and perhaps what he told Miami Police was paranoid because he was being sought by animal protection people and was in a chaotic situation.”

Dr. Allard: “LM wasn't taking meds when he decided to move to Montreal from Toronto to start a new life in 2011. He felt police were after him. At first LM lived in the Point and had some clients. Spent a lot of time on internet. Things were ok.”

Dr. Allard: “LM felt he was being harassed on internet, which was partly true, but got involved in it too. He moved three times in Montreal. Had no radio or TV, because he felt they put things in his head. Common in patients.”

Dr. Allard: “After murder of 2 cats LM was hearing voices more and became scared.”

Dr. Allard: “LM admits to having sent the email to Alex West, journalist with The Sun in London, in which he says killing is like smoking...hard to stop. He told me he did it because he wanted to scare West.”

Dr. Allard: LM became more anxious when talking about it. He was embarrassed and ashamed. Bad judgement, he told me. LM said it was stupid, that he should never have written the email. He just didn't think it through.”

Dr. Allard: “LM was getting increasingly sicker in 2011 and personality was changing. More irritable and arrogant. LM repeated behaviour. Felt hunted.”

Court resumes after lunch, with Dr. Allard going through the report of her sessions with Luka Magnotta.
  
Dr. Allard: “LM told me that in April 2012, he wasn't feeing well and wanted to move to France. he contacted man in Paris via dating website.

LM was believing more and more that he was being followed by police. Listening to him. LM said Prime Minister Harper's Government would prevent him from going to France. Felt persecuted and paranoia. LM didn't know PM Stephen Harper or his wife personally.

LM fascinated with Marilyn Monroe, felt connected to her. Also with film Basic Instinct which he watched with aunt and dad. LM interested in films from 30s and 40s. Poster of Casablanca in his apartment.

Dr. Allard: “LM was working as an escort and murder was committed in context of sex, was it motivated by sexual desire? Necrophilia?” Allard asks.

Dr. Allard: “LM was into bondage but was the submissive one. Met Jun Lin through Craigslist ad that LM posted. LM said Lin came to his apartment willingly and was game to videotape their sexual activities.”

Dr. Allard” LM was the first one to be tied to the bed while Jun Lin had anal intercourse with him. LM felt anxious and asked him to stop. LM went on balcony and saw a black car, came back in and said they should take a break. Both took tamazepam. LM heard voices in head.”

Dr. Allard: “LM thought he was being spied on. Jun Lin asked to be tied to bed. LM began thinking Jun Lin was sent by the government to kill him. Voices told LM to “do it”, “he's from the Government” and “cut it”.

Dr. Allard: “While talking about the murder, LM became more anxious, sweating, mixed up. Hard for him to get into it.”

Dr. Allard: “LM told me: "it's very scary, how can I do that?” "He remembered doing it, but not sure of chronology."

Dr. Allard:”On 17th January 2014, LM told me what happened the night of 24th-25th May 2012.”

Dr. Allard: “He (LM) made the video that was posted online because “something forced me to do it. It just gave me this weird energy.”

Dr. Allard: “Voices told him to stab Jun Lin's trunk over and over.”

Dr. Allard: “It took a good two hour for Luka Magnotta to explain that night because he needed to take breaks. I had to ask questions numerous times.”

Dr. Allard: “LM wanted to cooperate and I could see that it was hard for him to get into the details. Ashamed. Almost didn't understand why. Not as if he didn't want to answer my questions, he didn't get irritated or aggressive. But was anxious, in panic.”

Dr. Allard: “He wasn't putting on an act. I had no doubt he was extremely anxious and nervous. LM filtered things and just gave an overview, not details.”

Dr. Allard: “LM said he put Jun Lin's head in the fridge because he thought it was sending him messages”.

Dr. Allard: “As he killed Jun Lin, he heard voices telling him to “give it back” and thought he would give the body back to the Government.”

Dr. Allard: “LM took the head to Angrignon Park the next day because he wanted to perform a religious ceremony on it. He went to that park often.”

Dr, Allard: “LM couldn't explain some of the acts he committed on Jun Lin's body. Just said he felt confused. LM seemed ashamed. I don't enjoy having sex with a dead body. Said he was sad for victim and family.”

Dr, Allard: “After the murder, LM stayed up for at least 24 hours. He drowned his puppy because he thought something was controlling him.”

Dr. Allard: “LM sent a hand and foot to Vancouver because he had spoken to Jun Lin about the City, that there were a lot of Asians there.”

Dr. Allard: “LM said he was feeling restless, lots of adrenaline, hard to think because it was like a nightmare.”

Poem LM included in package sent to Vancouver came from a film, Valentine.

Dr. Allard: “LM told me knew there were surveillance cameras in apartment and pharmacy, but it didn't bother him.”

Dr. Allard: “After killing Jun Lin, LM remembers feeling very confused, said he didn't make the video to shock people but to get voices out of his head. LM wanted to scare the Government so they would get out of his life.”

Dr. Allard: “LM thinks he bought the suitcase the day after the killing. Thought the Government would come to kill him so he decided to go to France.”

Dr. Allard: “When LM saw the article about himself online in Berlin, it was like he was in another person's body. He was scared, was kind of sick.”


Court adjourns for the day.  Resumes tomorrow, 12th November 2014.


Continuing with Testimony from Dr. Marie-Frédérique Allard, 12th November 2014

Session starts with watching surveillance footage of LM regarding his behaviour after Jun Lin's death.

Dr. Allard: “We see a calm person, in control. It's not incompatible with being mentally ill.”

Dr. Allard: Describing LM's behaviour post-murder. “He's calm, not hiding anything, not feeling. Not unusual with illness. I excluded sexual sadism in LM. He had sexual activities in which was SM, but he was the submissive one. Suffered.”

Dr. Allard: “Putting his crime video online could be linked to his narcissism.  When I watched LM videos there was no signs of arousal or pleasure from what he was doing. No necrophilia, either, because LM wasn't aroused.”

Dr. Allard: “Not one psychiatrist who saw LM over the years diagnosed with personality disorder. I found personality traits in LM that were due to his schizophrenia.” (Dr. Paris, April 2012?)  It's hard to pinpoint personality disorder when patient suffers from psychosis. Illness gets in the way of diagnosis. People with Borderline Personality Disorder often have history of neglect and abandonment.”

Dr. Allard: “LM had an unstable life, unstable relationships, impulsive, sad, anxious. LM spent his life trying to hide signs of mental illness.”

Dr. Allard: “That's a hypothesis I had before even meeting LM. But I discovered he didn't just post the video for admiration. The goal wasn't necessarily admiration. It was to say stop harassing me.”

Dr. Allard: “LM was in psychotic state when he wrote email to Sun journalist, Alex West. He wasn't being treated, he wasn't stable.”

Dr. Allard: “LM committed anti-social acts, but is not an anti-social person. Anti-social behaviour starts before 15 years old. People who lie, commit fraud, looking for trouble, fighting. People who lack empathy and think more of themselves and their own needs.”

Dr. Allard: “One can be schizophrenic and organised.”

Dr. Allard: “I have done over 850 psychiatric evaluations for the Courts in the past 15 years. Majority for the Defence.”

Dr. Allard: “LM's psychosis was not drug-induced.”

Dr. Allard: “During an evaluation with another psychiatrist, Dr. Joel Watts, LM mentioned Manny much more, that he spoke to him on phone during killing.”

Dr. Allard: “True he reported different things. LM very complex and most difficult of my career. When he spoke with me fewer symptoms.  Patients who fake tend to exaggerate their symptoms. LM did not.”

Defence finished with questioning Dr. Allard. Now to cross-examination by Crown.

Dr. Allard: “I was hired a year ago in November 2013.  I was not able to speak to LM's family, save for his father. I wish I could have met everyone involved, but not possilbe. We have to live with it.”

Dr. Allard: “I didn't know conclusions of Dr. Watt's report, so had no preconceptions. I followed the case in the media but nothing else.”

Dr Allard: “I met LM for about 23.5 hours total. Language wasn't a barrier for us.”

Dr. Allard: “LM told me he killed Jun Lin, but wouldn't go into details or explain.”

Crown ponders why Magnotta would have left his apartment right after the murder, if he felt he was being followed by Government agents.

Dr. Allard: “LM wasn't rational. He really thought he was killing a Government agent.”

Dr Allard: “LM met the unidentified man he was with a week before on Craigslist. But he was never traced.”

Dr. Allard: “I would like to know what was going on in LM's head at the time, but can never really find that out, with all patients.  I asked questions several times and retuned to subjects because it was extremely difficult for LM to talk about it.”

Dr. Allard: “LM was overwhelmed with what happened. I knew how Jun Lin was killed. He said he had a hammer to hang frames in his apartment.”

Dr. Allard: “I didn't go over surveillance footage with LM to go over his comings and goings after the murder.”

Dr. Allard: “LM told me that it happened quickly but I didn't ask how Jun Lin reacted.”

Dr. Allard: “When someone is in psychosis it's impossible to find logic in their behaviour. It's not based on reality.”

Dr. Allard: “LM bought suitcase on 25th May 2012, after killing Jun Lin. I didn't ask where he bought it. He put torso in it.”

Dr. Allard: “LM bought paint at Omer Deserres and put in on suitcase. I didn't ask why. Why did he slash it? He didn't remember.”

Dr. Allard: “LM didn't always tell truth in his life to avoid hospitalization, that's clear.”

Dr. Allard: “LM doesn't always tell truth”.

Dr. Allard: “Schizophrenia doesn't equal lying. They may lie, but lots of people lie.”

Dr. Allard: “LM's memory could be affected because he was overwhelmed, very disturbed, ashamed, so could be reason why he can't remember.”

Dr. Allard: "I didn't ask LM about tools in his apartment. He said he just had them. I didn't write it in my report."


Crown: “Magnotta lied to psychiatrist in April 2012 to avoid hospitalization, so why wouldn't he lie to avoid going to prison?”

Court adjourns for lunch, followed by a lengthy break in proceedings due to legal argument.

Dr. Allard: “Jun Lin wasn't a client of LM. It was the first time they met and it was via Criagslist. Same with Columbian male week before.”

Dr. Allard: ”Manny wanted a threesome but the Columbian refused so LM just had sex and it was filmed. LM asked Colombian if he was okay. Often happened that client was drunk and LM wanted to make sure he was Ok.”

Dr. Allard: “LM had the electric saw in his hand when Colombian in his bed. He “couldn't explain why he did this.”

  
Reviewing video footage where LM dumps thing is garbage in apartment building basement.
Crown: “Was there any explanation for the shower curtain on the bed?

Dr. Allard: “No.”

Dr. Allard: ”I just asked general questions regarding hours following Jun Lin's death. LM said he wanted to go to Europe.”

Dr. Allard: ”Sure he looks calm, but hard to know what was going through his head. Could be he didn't want to leave trace because he didn't want the Police to find him or maybe the Government.”

Dr. Allard: ”Magnotta throwing things out could look like he's trying to hide from Government agents in hallucination.”

Dr. Allard: ”LM didn't leave the country on 25th May 2012, he waited until 26th May since “spy” Jun Lin was dead, danger was lower. But Government could still be after him.”

Dr. Allard: "LM also had things to do on the 25th May 2012, like sending packages.”

Crown: “Why did Magnotta wear Lin's cap and shirt after killing him if he thought he was a Government agent?

Dr. Allard: “Didn't ask him.”

Dr. Allard: “LM told me that Jun Lin took Temazepam and alcohol. Jun Lin was not used to Temazepam like Magnotta so it could have had more of an effect on victim.”

Crown: Is your role to challenge of simply to receive information?”

Dr. Allard: “No, I challenged Magnotta, repeated questions.”

Dr. Allard: “I asked LM about dismemberment but he said he didn't remember much. It could be he found it hard to talk about.”

Dr. Allard: “LM remembered certain details of the night including his dog and using a fork and knife, but he couldn't explain why. He couldn't remember what he did. He remembered drowning puppy. He remembered masturbating with arm. Didn't know why.”

Crown: “Magnotta filmed for three hours, not minutes, and he didn't remember that? When he cut head off? Cut buttocks?”

Dr. Allard: “No. LM didn't remember exactly what he did, but he did choose that music on purpose.”

Crown: Why did the video posted online not include the shot that showed Magnotta's face?”

Dr. Allard: “LM could not explain it.”

Crown: “Was LM seeking fame by posting video on gore sites?”

Dr. Allard: “No”

Crown: “Why didn't you put in record that LM bought plane ticket and was going to go to Europe to change his life?

Dr. Allard: “He was leaving to start a new life, but didn't ask.”

Court looks again at video of LM putting computer in the garbage.

Crown finds another detail not in Dr. Allard's report.

Crown:” So if I don't ask, jury won't know?”



Defence objection. Court adjourns for the day.  Resumes tomorrow, 13th November 2014.

N.B.: Sue Montgomery's Twitter feed got slightly garbled so I had to fill in gaps with other reporters' courtroom coverage.

Continuing with Testimony from Dr. Marie-Frédérique Allard, 13th November 2014

Dr. Allard is referring to a form filled out when LM went to hospital in 2001 in which he talk about being dizzy, not changing clothing, being depressed.

Crown shows a coherent letter LM wrote in April 2012 to get tax credit.

Dr. Allard: “Patients can be psychotic and yet function well.”

Crown showing receipt form Canada Post when LM sent packages to Vancouver and Ottawa at a cost of $210 on 26th May 2012.  Magnotta paid with a debit card.

Dr. Allard: “I never saw this.”

Crown: “The name that Magnotta used was 'Kirk Trammel'. When did he start using this name?”

Crown: “LM thought calls in prison were bugged. It that paranoia? When one is in prison?”

Dr. Allard: “Happens often. The difference is that regular inmates can be reassured, and those who are sick can't be. LM was never reassured.”

Dr. Allard: “In Miami LM said he life was “so chaotic”. Was referring to fact that he didn't take medication, bad relationship with Manny, more psychotic.”

Crown:”Magnotta putting dark towels over windows because he thought he was being watched. Isn't that something people taking crack do?”

Dr. Allard: “Could be. But schizophrenics often feel they are being watched.”

Crown: “Why did LM rent a hotel for nine days in Paris if he already met Jean-Christophe Robert online?

Dr. Allard: “Robert didn't want him right away. And the first hotel he was in was more expensive than the second. LM was sure that Robert didn't love him.”

Crown: “So why did he leave Paris for Berlin?”

Dr. Allard: “It's not logical or rational. He rented a hotel room under his name, went out, didn't act like someone who was fleeing.”

Crown: “Why did he check in to Novotel under his own name and then that same night went to another hotel under Kirk Trammel?”

Dr. Allard:”True, it's not exactly logical. But LM said he found the first hotel too expensive. He wanted to start a new life under the name Kirk Trammel.”

Crown: “Did you ask Magnotta about putting an empty wine bottle in Jun Lin's anus?”

Dr. Allard: “He wasn't aroused, so he used the bottle.”

Crown:”That isn't in your report!”

Dr. Allard:” Those were questions I asked after.”

Crown: “Are there other things missing from your report?”

Dr. Allard: “Can I make a comment?”

Crown: “No, just answer questions.”

Judge allows her to speak.

Dr. Allard: “It's not necessary to do all that research regarding the family etc. That's not the way we work. LM didn't want to live like his father in poverty. He wanted to escape his illness and be a super star. One of his dreams was to have his own children and live with his grandmother, but he felt he had let her down by not doing that.”

Dr. Allard: “LM thought Jun Lin's head was transmitting messages so he wanted to perform religious ceremony on it in Angrignon Park.”

Dr. Allard:”Even if we leave out his version, or what he said, there are many other elements that show he was in psychosis.”

Court adjourns for lunch break.

Judge tells the Jury that they will sit tomorrow and maybe the first week of December too.

Crown: “LM told apartment building landlord that he had a job and a child. Why?”

Dr. Allard: “He wanted to come across as normal.”

Dr. Allard: “LM sent email to British journalist, Alex West, because he was mad. He thought an article would be published soon. He was thrown out of hotel because of him. I didn't ask why LM didn't send email directly to Alex West, but rather to Sun general email address. He took two days to do it.”

Crown: “LM used the name John Kilbride, victim of British serial killers.”

Dr. Allard: “He used it because it was a story he knew, just had name in his head. LM was very used to making up email addresses. He did the same with Kilbride. LM said it was name of victim, like him.”

Dr. Allard:”I agree that it's not the best way to be left alone.”

Crown: “But it wasn't even his real name.”

Crown: “Do you agree the tone is aggressive, threatening, degrading?

Dr. Allard: “Yes totally.”

Crown: “LM wrote in email it was fun watching people trying to gather evidence but can't catch me.”

Dr. Allard: “He told me it was a stupid email.”

Dr. Allard: “LM told me he wasn't writing that to describe anything he was planning. It's very theatrical. He didn't tell me where he was when he wrote the email or why the address was .co.uk”

Crown:”LM had fascination with Sharon Stone, who starred in Basic Instinct. Character was Catherine Trammel. Manny is the name of Catherine Trammel's husand in movie Basic Instinct, who was not seen in film. LM used Kirk Trammel and Catherine as computer login”

Dr. Allard: “I didn't know that. Similarities with Magnotta's 'Manny'?

Crown: “The screwdriver used to stab Jun Lin was painted silver, like the ice pick in the movie Basic Instinct.”

Crown: “In Dr. Watts report who also evaluated LM, there's more talk of Manny. Manny was present at the time of killing, says that report.”

Dr. Allard:”Manny became more present in LM's story whilst he was in Montreal, spoke on phone. But he didn't play an active role. Like he was there.”

Dr. Allard: “LM knew what he did in Montreal to Jun Lin, but he was not preoccupied with police searching for him.

Crown: “Maybe LM didn't think he would be caught.

Adjourns for break. Crown almost done with Dr. Allard.


Crown has no further questions for witness. Defence re-examining witness.

Leclair: “Why didn't you speak to LM's ex-boyfriend, Ron?

Dr. Allard: “The relationship ended poorly a few years before the crime.”

Dr. Allard: “For me, it's clear – the details do not correspond with a psychosis related to drug use.”

Dr. Allard: “I stress logic cannot be imposed on patients suffering with schizophrenia. LM was sick before and after crime, in psychosis. Psychosis explains Magnotta's actions.”

Defence finished. Witness dismissed.  Court adjourns until 14th November 2014


Testimony from Dr. Renée Roy, 3rd & 6th November 2014

Defence Witness, Dr. Renée Roy, who is a psychiatrist at various institutions including Riviere des Prairies Detention Centre (RDP), Montreal, since August 2012. Dr. Roy has been treating Luka Magnotta at RDP since 21st November 2012. Dr. Roy's initial testimony focussed on periodic reports she wrote of her consultations with Luka Magnotta at RDP.

21st November 2012 - Dr. Renée Roy, Psychiatrist at Riviere des Prairies Detention Centre, Montreal, met Luka Magnotta for first time. It was in file that LM was paranoid schizophrenic. LM told her that he had smoked pot in adolescence, but stopped. No ecstasy, no info regarding cocaine. Dr. Roy said LM spoke in monotone, said he was anxious, afraid of other inmates. Isolated. Thinks he will be killed by other inmates. LM hearing voices. Sad. No suicidal ideation. Not knowing why he as born. Said he speaks to Marilyn Monroe.

5th December 2012 - LM worried about legal situation. Worried about other inmates, sadness. LM was not having hallucinations, hearing voices, delusional, but worried an inmate gathering info on him. LM emotions neutral. Didn't express emotions. Detached.

28th December 2012 - LM much more anxious than last visit. Heard that religious friend, a nun, had died of cancer. LM stressed.. LM having trouble sleeping so Dr Roy gave him medication to help him sleep.

23rd January 2013 - LM more anxious because he thought a new staff member had been sent to hurt him. Thought his two cellmates were out to get him. LM had fragile personality. Hard to make a precise diagnosis. LM very negative about himself which is sign of serious depression. LM asked to be hospitalized but after discussing with her superior, decided against his request. Would see him again in a week.

15th February 2013 - LM sleeping a lot. He was more comfortable. LM says he woke up with nightmares because of movie, Friday 13th. Meds can cause weight gain. Once LM took meds, hallucinations and delusions calmed down. LM was worried about his grandmother. Thought the phones in his section of the prison were tapped.

6th March 2013 - LM dropped a medication because he felt agitated on it. Dr. Roy tried to convince him to take it but LM didn't want to. LM weighs 200lbs now. Wanted to take a course by correspondence while waiting for trial. Dr. Roy prescribed max dose of anti-depressant. Says LM had been taking Ativan long before she saw him.

28th March 2013 – LM didn't want to face journalists at his preliminary hearing. Roy discussed ways to manage it. Increased dosage of meds to help him get through the preliminary hearing and the trial. LM seemed to have fallen in love with one of the male nurses. He spoke English and took care of him. LM cried and was sad because found it hard to get through Easter. Not suicidal but heard voices again. The only mention of Jun Lin was graffiti the other inmates wrote on wall. Says LM wanted to write a letter to Jun Lin's mother to say sorry. Dr. Roy told LM that perhaps it was too early for everyone to write such a letter and maybe later would be better.

10th April 2013 – Roy and LM talked about LM's attraction to the nurse. Psychiatrist had talked to him. Then he left on vacation. LM said he wanted to apologize to nurse. LM was anxious, sad when nurse left. As for school, was complicated because LM needed report cards, birth certificate and LM couldn't get together. LM trying to learn French so staff could communicate better with him. He had difficulty concentrating because of meds. Worried. LM would start sessions with few words of French but then he would stop. But he understood my English.

Dr. Renée Roy - 5th November 2014 Testimony

Dr. Roy did an evaluation of whether LM was apt to stand trial. Says LM was anxious, difficult sleeping, having nightmares. LM cooperated with her and answered questions. Initially he talked a lot so it was hard to have question/answer conversation. LM asked Dr. Roy to see his cell, it was dirty. And he didn't want to take a shower because he was worried about being sexually assaulted.

22nd August 2014 - Dr. Roy notes LM heard voices. Prescribed meds to help him sleep. LM started history and French courses but found it too hard to concentrate so stopped. When LM started going to court, he became anxious. Found staff attitude changed towards him. Was hearing noises as if cell phone in head.

Dr. Renée Roy - 6th November 2014 Testimony

Dr. Roy: "I work in several places, including RDP where LM is being held. I started working at RDP August 2012, two months after LM arrested. Treated by another doctor before. LM only had six sessions with him because of side effects of medication. LM was never transferred to Philippe Pinel Institute (for inmates with psychiatric problems) during his detention.”

Dr.Roy: “I had 2 things regarding LM's file from former psychiatrist, Dr. Talbot, at RDP and file from Dr. Weinstein, who treated him at NY General in 2009-10. One med LM was taking gave him tremors. LM wanted to go back on meds he was taking before.”

Crown asks: “Despite side effects?”.

Dr. Roy: “I don't know”.

Dr. Roy:” LM may have more difficulty speaking English with Dr. Talbot, the doctor he had at RDP before her. Along the way she discovered there were other reports of schizophrenia in LM's past. On first meeting with LM he was reticent to speak about file with Talbot. LM hid the fact that he heard voices in 2012 to avoid being placed in isolation.”

Crown asks, “What does love transfer mean?”

Dr. Roy: “LM fell for nurse because he was nice and smiled at him. LM felt sad about it because he misunderstood. He was losing the opportunity to see the nurse again. LM arranged things in his cell, hoping the male nurse would come in.”

Dr. Roy: “LM told me he had gone to Jewish General Hospital, but didn't discuss what was discussed.”

End of Witness Testimony


Testimony from Dr. Thomas Barth 4th-5th November 2014

Dr. Barth with Magnotta's Defence, Luc Leclair
Defence Witness, Dr. Thomas Barth, has been a psychiatrist at Berlin Prison Hospital, Psychiatric Department, since 2008, where he went to do a PhD thesis on sexuality in prison.  He treated Luka Magnotta whilst he was on remand in the Berlin Prison Hospital, between 11th-18th June 2012.   Since June 2014 he specialises in forensic psychiatry.

Witness Testimony 4th November 2014

Dr. Thomas Barth tells the Court that he has been at Prison Hospital since 2008 where he went to do PhD thesis regarding sexuality in prison. Dr. Barth specializes in forensic psychiatry as of June 2014.

Dr Barth: “Forensic psychiatry covers legal aspects of people with psychiatric problems. If disease related to crime. Forensic expert has to prove whether convicted prisoner can be released into society.”

Dr Barth: “I mostly deal with high profile cases. Most have committed serious crimes like rape, sexual abuse of children, murder. I only do expertise on request from Court or Prosecution, never for Defence. I have done 5 cases regarding criminal responsibility.”

Dr Barth: “I met Luka Magnotta on 11th June 2012, a week after LM's arrest. He was admitted to Prison Hospital in Berlin. LM was admitted to remand prison a day after his arrest. Had to be seen within 24 hours by a Doctor, by law, regarding physical and mental health. LM was seen by general practitioner, who noted in file that the arrest warrant mentioned shizophrenia. LM on suicide watch. The Doctor who saw LM didn't find an suicidal ideation in him. No hallucinations. Only saw LM for just 10-15 minutes.”

Dr. Barth: “LM was transferred to prison hospital within the prison. High Security. Roughly 5,000 prisoners. Only 28 beds in Psychiatric Department. Some prisoners try to fake psychiatric problems in order to have a few weeks “vacation” from prison. So strict screening. Prison Hospital deals only with severe cases – people who want to hurt themselves or others. No time to deal with neurotics. LM seen by one of psychiatrists before admission. But LM was sent by general practitioner because of media coverage and psychiatric problems.”

Dr. Barth: “I first met LM in patients' library without any attending nurses. The Prison Hospital is very posh, private hospital, but still a prison. Nurses in Psychiatric Department very experienced. Prisoners are free to roam around in Psychiatric Department – exception in entire institution. Everyone else confined to cells. Even have a terrorist who was under security ban and we asked the Government to lift this ban so we could properly treat him.”

Dr. Barth:”I was aware of LM case via media. I didn't feel any fear, LM appeared shy when they met.”

Dr. Barth: “I wrote report on 18th June 2012 after Luka Magnotta was released and sent back to Canada. Diagnosed severe psychotic episode brought on by schizophrenia. Suspected paranoid schizophrenia because only saw Luka Magnotta for a week. Is the most severe diagnosis we can give, so careful.”

Dr. Barth: “Dr. Watts accompanied LM on military plane back to Canada. I gave him some meds for LM for the flight.

Dr. Barth: “LM was an inpatient from 11th June 2012 - 18th June 2012. Suspected schizophrenia because it was on arrest warrant. I asked LM if he was hearing voices. Is the leading symptom. LM says he feels like he has a radio in his head and hears voices. The General Practitioner who saw LM for 15-20 minutes didn't note any voices”

Dr: Bath: “LM told me that a man named “Robin” gave him steroids and was making him feel sick. Common that schizophrenic tries to hide symptoms.”

Dr. Barth: “They (schizophrenics) can be distracted and give answer with short interruption, listening to voices telling them what to say. Schizophrenics sometimes try to hide symptoms and that's what I thought LM was trying to do”

Dr. Barth: "LM told me that “Robin” was his former boyfriend who tried to poison him. Can't play tennis anymore. I take these signs seriously. Schizophrenics sometimes lose feeling in body. Have to touch head to make sure it's there. Arms and legs heavy.”

Dr. Barth: “LM told me that his father was schizophrenic and people made fun of him. This shows he is trying to work with me. His intention was to work with me and to tell me his problems, but presented everything within minutes. I didn't even ask.”

Dr. Barth: “LM mentioned “Manny”, 30-year old white American, pimp and former boyfriend. LM said Manny worked with Canadian Prime Minister, Stephen Harper. I didn't know what he was talking about but I just let him talk. “Manny” forced LM not to take his anti-psychotic medication. LM drove to Miami with “Manny”, who forced LM to eat faeces and drink urine. Forced him to do sex videos and sold them.”

Dr. Barth: “LM then mentioned “she” and then said “she is a witch.”

Leclair asks: “This could be seen as manipulative. Were your antennae up?”

Dr. Barth: “This behaviour raises suspicion. You can fake it, of course. You can't keep faking though. In hospital you are under observation of very experienced nurses and doctors observing you.”

Dr. Barth: “LM told me he wanted to see his grandma, whom he had not seen in 2 years. LM says his mother was alcoholic and stepfather beat him. He mentioned witch again. She's a witch. I hate her, I hate my mother”.

Dr. Barth: “LM appeared disturbed during his entire stay. Moved a bit slowly, spoke slowly. Hardly maintained eye contact. Staring into void. LM behaviour appeared from first moment a bit strange.LM was in conditions where almost everyone would be in stress, but was more than I was used to. Tried to make him comfortable.”

Dr. Barth: “LM had a double room to himself. Hospital has living room with TV where prisoners eat meals, which we wanted to encourage. LM spent most of time in his room, with door closed, but he ate with other inmates. He received letters and postcards. Library is place where inmates can sit and read – 1,000 books in different languages. I took LM to his office without guards because he felt comfortable.”

Dr. Barth: “LM wasn't feeling up to talking about forced sex by stepfather when he was 16, so I didn't push for details. Psychiatrists don't force patients to talk about something they don't want to talk about. Sexuality can be difficult topic for people even without psychological problems. We don't ask about crime they committed.”

Dr. Barth:” I was aware of what LM did but never asked about it. Could be trauma to talk about, if they want to talk, we listen.”

Dr. Barth: “LM told me that he had sex with his stepmother and at first it was fun but didn't want to do it again. Started talking about Ron. Ron a liar. LM said he had sex with several men. He told story without emotions, sometimes seemed more distressed and fearful. LM spoke about things in a way as if he wasn't talking about himself. I felt LM wasn't a cheater trying to fake psychotic symptoms but rather tried to get rid of questions when about psychosis. LM didn't look at me, was speaking with monotonous voice, as if talking about someone else.”

Dr. Barth: “Some inmates try to get into psychiatric department by faking something. A fifth of patients we deal with are psychopaths. I'm quite used to this kind of patient. Psychopaths often have skilled manner to express wishes, manipulate, smart. Often schizophrenics will use marijuana to slow down their psychotic symptoms and helps quiet voices. Can also suffer from delusions. Feel their body is changing and could see devil in mirror instead of themselves. That's the inner world of psychotics in acute psychotic episode.”

Dr. Barth: “LM says his grandfather gave him alcohol since he was 10, but didn't like it so doesn't drink. LM didn't want to talk more about it. Smoked pot a few times but felt sick and after made voices louder “Manny” gave it to him. Thought Manny had put cocaine in his drinks. Many schizophrenic people drink to keep symptoms in check. Alcohol and cannabis are the most common things used because it's easy to get. At some point schizophrenics will use whatever they can get. I can't remember a patient that used cocaine regularly.”

Dr. Barth: “I can't tell you how much time per day I spent with him because sometimes LM didn't want to talk or avoided certain topics. LM refused to have an MRI scan on abdomen so did an ultrasound but found nothing. LM spoke about “Debbie” out of the blue. She is recording me with a camera. She can cast spells on me. I'm scared. I closed the window and LM felt relieved. Thought Debbie photographing through window.”

Dr. Barth: “If you're a good actor, you can fake it, but I doubt you can fake it over a long period of time. Sometimes nurses, who are more experienced, tell us, come on, let's get rid of this guy. He's playing ping pong. Nurses felt sympathy for LM. He was really suffering. There was never any feeling he was faking it.”

Dr. Barth:“Hard to diagnose what LM was doing when masturbating with severed arm. Very disturbing outcome of an offence. We have a few patients a year that commit cruel offences, some are not psychotic, but I would look at schizophrenia.”

Crown asks: “Why can't you diagnose what defence described?

Barth: “Need much more info. Can't conclude diagnosis based on the crime. I am not forensic expert in this case. I wasn't asked to assess LM. My role is confined to the week I treated LM in Berlin, 11th June-18th June 2012. I spoke to LM daily because he was aware of important situation. Media coverage might burden for sane person. We suspected LM as insane or at least schizophrenic and Canadian, so we were approaching him differently than other patients. LM didn't interact with other patients, kept to himself and asked not to be approached by other inmates. He said he was scared.”

Dr. Barth: “I didn't have LM's psychiatric files form Canada. I expected to treat him much longer and was surprised extradition was so fast. Once LM was extradited, I closed the file. ” I would have appreciated those records but they never arrived.”

Dr. Barth: “I would not have been surprised if LM had substance abuse.”

Crown says: “That's what 2011 Mount Sinai record says!”

Dr Barth: “Common for patients not to be forthcoming with information. I approached Mr Magnotta very gently. What he was going through would have been difficult for sane person, let alone insane.”

Dr. Barth: “Luka Magnotta was a VIP. The ward received quite a few postcards and letters from unknown people for LM. Fan mail. One sent him socks and said please wear these and send them back. LM was distressed and scared because of it.”

Crown, asks: “Can you objectively assess hallucinations?”

Dr. Barth : “We are dealing with all kinds of psychopathic findings.”

Crown : “Never had hallucinations in front of you?”

Dr. Barth: “First day, no, but I asked him and he had thought withdrawal and radio in head. When I took cell phone out of my pocket, LM was scared and thought it was a weapon and that I would kill him. LM had wanted staff to call his grandmother, because he was close to her. Her hanging up could lead to self-harm or suicide. LM wasn't first patient for extradition from the prison hospital.”

Dr. Barth met with Dr. Joel Watts, psychiatrist whom accompanied LM back to Canada.

Witness Testimony 5th November 2012.


Dr. Barth :”LM didn't deliver much information on specific questions. Sometimes he was obviously not able to go to some topics. Luka Magnotta seemed very authentic. I had no reason not to believe him. LM told me that he took his medicine at Frank's place, where he stayed in Berlin.

Crown: “Police didn't find those meds.”

Dr Barth: “I wouldn't be surprised if LM says he has meds and it runs out he didn't have any. I didn't even know who Frank was. I asked questions about other people, like “Manny” and “she”. Sometimes got answer, sometimes not. You have to believe a patient otherwise you can't treat them. LM was in severe mental condition and we suspected psychotic episode. LM appeared very distressed and anxious. Showed signs of suspicion. He thought I would shoot him when I pulled my cell phone out and it made a click. I believed him.”

Crown: “Possible he was using you to record his symptoms so there would be a record of them?”

Dr Barth: “LM was obviously psychotic. He's switching topics was very typical of these kinds of patients. There were even topics he didn't want to talk about, like audible hallucinations. That's why I took him to my office to talk. Usually only do that when I feel confident and safe and they cooperate.”

Crown: “LM didn't want to talk about having sex with stepmother when he was 16 and other topics”

Dr. Barth: “It wasn't a gentle conversations, he was distressed and seemed driven by emotions. I try not to be obtrusive. LM didn't say he didn't want to talk, he just flipped to another subject. Many psychotic patients don't talk about their crime at all. Often they can't remember or they just don't want to. I respect that somebody doesn't want to speak about their crime if it's committed while psychotic. LM delivered a lot of information in disorganized manner.”

Crown: “LM said he was making videos with animals so did you ask about it?”

Dr. Barth: “I never heard of pornography with animals.”

Dr. Barth: “My research deals with sexual victimization. Approach is to be very sensitive and gentle. A lot of victimization in sex industry.”

Crown: “LM was in and out of Mount Sinai Hospital in 48hours with diagnosis of substance abuse”

Dr. Barth: “LM told me about two psychiatric treatments he had before.”

Crown: “LM was seen at Jewish General two months before killing but didn't say he was having schizophrenia symptoms. Who are we to believe and when, Dr. Barth?”

Dr. Barth: “I am not here to give opinion. But I believed LM in June 2012. I wasn't supposed to treat LM's addiction disorder. Had to treat very distressed patient. No need to question patient's info. Maybe I suspected he took more and had more substance abuse than he told me, but had no need to go further. I didn't feel that LM fooled me.”

Crown :”Even now that you know more?”

Dr. Barth: “No”

Crown: “He wanted you to think he was crazy. He wanted the world to believe he was crazy.”

Dr. Barth: “He was ill, don't use crazy. Even the most experiences investigator can be cheated and fail in diagnosis.”

Crown talks about malingering: avoiding work, evading criminal prosecution, military duty et. And feigning illness to do so.

Crown: “In Magnotta case there are three of four criteria present.”

Dr. Barth: “Wasn't aware of malingering, but in Magnotta case didn't have that impression throughout 7 days I was with him.”

Crown: “Psychiatrist at Jewish General Hospital wrote said he doesn't seem to appear to suffer bipolar or psychosis: 2 months before LM in Berlin.”

Dr. Barth: “Schizophrenics can appear normal and a little change in life can lead to relapse in life and you deal with psychotic outbreak. I didn't know LM was an actor” 


End of witness testimony. 

Dr. Barth should be commended for his concise record keeping.  There is no doubting Dr. Barth's credentials as a psychiatrist.  However, it should be noted that he was not called to give evidence in his specialisist field of forensic psychiatry; a fact that Dr. Barth clarifies during cross-examination by the Crown.

Rather curiously, Dr. Barth, himself, said towards the end of his testimony that: "I am not here to give my opinion".  I say curiously because that is precisely what he did on numerous occasions throughout his very lengthy testimony to the Court.

Dr. Barth stated that his testimony was confined to the week he treating and assessed Luka Magnotta whilst he was remanded as an inpatient on the Pscyhiatric Ward from 11th-18th June 2012.  Yet, he certainly doesn't appear to be shy about venturing a diagnosis - albeit a "suspected" diagnosis due to the short period of time that he had observed Luka Magnotta.

There were some interesting insights during Dr. Barth's testimony, for sure, but at times I did find myself wondering whether Barth was a 'Dr. Chilton' character, professionally intrigued by a unique subject such as Luka Magnotta - his 'Hannibal'.

I say that because Dr. Barth's research field is sexual victimization and he mentions "a lot of victimization in the sex industry", something Luka Magnotta, of course, knows all too well!  I also got the impression from his testimony that Dr. Barth was professionally disappointed at Magnotta's early extradition.

As for Dr. Barth's meticulous notation about what Magnotta said during their sessions, I find it highly coincidental that the only reference Luka Magnotta made of his time in Berlin before his arrest, was a random comment about taking his medication at Frank's, the man he stayed with for three days.  In this statement Luka Magnotta appears to be giving leading information to provide future explanation of the fact that prior to his arrest he did not present symptoms of psychosis, without actually appearing to say as much; I should imagine knowing that Dr. Barth would dutifully record his words.  

Understandably the Crown seized upon this testimony as evidence that Magnotta might have been manipulating Dr. Barth, particularly so as the Crown stated that the "police didn't find those meds".  Even Dr. Barth conceded later on in his testimony that: "Even the most experiences investigator can be cheated and fail in diagnosis."

But, of course, this is just my opinion.  Here you can read the full testimony and reach your own conclusions.

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